Day Skipper or Coastal Skipper

[jimi]

After I allegedly destroyed the previous thread by referring to the recently renamed practical Yachtmaster Coastal exam by its previous title of Coastal skipper and being taken to task in a very Kafkaesque fashion I thought I'd bung down my thoughts on this for the benefit of the relatively inexperienced.

1)IMHO a course completion cerificate is valueless if an exam is available it just means you've attended and either failed or thought you'd fail the exam.

2) Theory - If any thoughts at all of skippering a yacht go straight to the full Ym/cs or whatever its called and skip the Dayskipper. Lot of the content is the same , major difference is the weather and the standard expected on Collision Regs

3)Practical Courses - Make sure you know the standard you are and go with it. Being of Dayskipper or competent crew standard on a Yachtmaster course boat just spoils it for yourself and the other course attendees. Part of the learning on a course is learning from peers as well as the instructor.

4) Practical Exams, Definitely do the course preparation weeks for CS & YM, , it'll be fun , you'll learn a lot and make new friends. Don't blag your experience, the requirement is there for a reason.

5) Don't go on the same course as your partner go on separate courses

6) Go on courses in winter if youu can cope with the cold, you'll learn a lot more with loads of night hours , tons of **** weather etc etc and sitting in the pub in front of the fire debriefing is a great end to the day.

7)The Solent is a cracking place to learn, lots of tides, pilotage , and rarely weatherboaund because of its sheltered nature Other places are more attractive as holiday destinations but rarely offer quite as much variety of challenge in a safe environment whilst learnig.


Now if anyone (including Ubergeekian) wishes to get pedantic about any names i've used and/or course/ exam confusion , could they please start their own thread and have a go at me there rather than wrecking something that might be useful to beginners

 

[jimi]

Full Yachtmaster is not the same as the former Coastal Skipper exam, which is now called "Yachtmaster Coastal". You can find full details of the two qualifications on the RYA web site. Which did you mean in this case?

Oh dear
CLARIFICATION of :
"2) Theory - If any thoughts at all of skippering a yacht go straight to the full Ym/cs or whatever its called and skip the Dayskipper. Lot of the content is the same , major difference is the weather and the standard expected on Collision Regs "

there are 2 theory courses available:
a) Day Skipper .. apologies for calling it Dayskipper
link here http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/courses/navigation/Pages/Dayskipper.aspx

b) Coastal Skipper/Yachtmaster Offshore
link here http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/courses/navigation/Pages/Coastalskipper.aspx


Does that help, poppet?

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Oh dear

 

[jimi]

Ubergeekian, you are just being a pain in the @rse , go away and start your own thread in the Loaunge if you're trying to slag me off, you've tried once already on this thread and put your foot kneedeep in your mouth ..

Please leave this thread alone

 

[Ubergeekian]

Ubergeekian, you are just being a pain in the @rse , go away and start your own thread in the Loaunge if you're trying to slag me off, you've tried once already on this thread and put your foot kneedeep in your mouth ..

Please leave this thread alone

If you are trying to give advice - and on the whole it seems like sound advice to me - then why not avoid the ambiguities and errors which go with using out-of-date terms for courses?

As long as you make mistakes of this sort, you can hardly complain when someone points them out. There's nothing personal to it at all.

Right, now back to your advice. You wrote

Definitely do the course preparation weeks for CS & YM

Most sailing schools will offer a preparation week for the full Yachtmaster, but as the RYA put it unlike other courses in the cruising programme, there is no formal training to complete in order to become a Yachtmaster. ... Many Yachtmaster candidates choose to book themselves into an RYA training centre for some tailor-made tuition to prepare them for the exam, but this is not compulsory.

On the other hand, there is an official week-long course, with syllabus, which prepares for the Yachtmaster Coastal exam though the RYA do not help matters by calling it Coastal Skipper.

I'm guessing that by Definitely do the course preparation weeks for CS & YM you actually meant Definitely do the Coastal Skipper course before the Yachtmaster Coastal exam, and a preparation week before the Yachtmaster exam but it's hard to tell.

Once again, there is absolutely nothing personal about this. I'm just trying to clear up the inconsistencies and ambiguities in your advice for anyone who might be trying to follow it. Would it really be so bad to use the correct terms for the courses and qualifications you are discussing?

 

[jimi]

Ok mate, have it your own way.

I'm not posting anything on this anymore. I joined this forum to receive advice and when I could to share advice.


I did'nt join it to be stalked by a couple of people who seem to hve the knife out for me anmd twist whatever I say.

So until normal service is resumed I'm not posting on PBO anymore


Go on try and start a constructive thread of your own, see if you can manage that

 

[jimi]

If you are trying to give advice - and on the whole it seems like sound advice to me - then why not avoid the ambiguities and errors which go with using out-of-date terms for courses?

As long as you make mistakes of this sort, you can hardly complain when someone points them out. There's nothing personal to it at all.

Right, now back to your advice. You wrote



Most sailing schools will offer a preparation week for the full Yachtmaster, but as the RYA put it unlike other courses in the cruising programme, there is no formal training to complete in order to become a Yachtmaster. ... Many Yachtmaster candidates choose to book themselves into an RYA training centre for some tailor-made tuition to prepare them for the exam, but this is not compulsory.

On the other hand, there is an official week-long course, with syllabus, which prepares for the Yachtmaster Coastal exam though the RYA do not help matters by calling it Coastal Skipper.

I'm guessing that by Definitely do the course preparation weeks for CS & YM you actually meant Definitely do the Coastal Skipper course before the Yachtmaster Coastal exam, and a preparation week before the Yachtmaster exam but it's hard to tell.

Once again, there is absolutely nothing personal about this. I'm just trying to clear up the inconsistencies and ambiguities in your advice for anyone who might be trying to follow it. Would it really be so bad to use the correct terms for the courses and qualifications you are discussing?

but however before I f#ck off I must add for the benefit of those who don't know.
For both the YM coastal and YM offshore the preparation week is normally the coastal skipper. However it is extremely unlikely that one would sit both exams at the same time so my recommedation was to do the same practical course again when going for YM offshore, As YM offshore candidate the standard expected and trained for will be higher than Coastal Skipper (now known as Yachtmaster Coastal)

As said in another thread that U & his mate wrecked the only difference between the YM Coastal and YM Offshore practical exam is the standard expected.




The prep weel

 

[Ubergeekian]

Ok mate, have it your own way.

I'm not posting anything on this anymore. I joined this forum to receive advice and when I could to share advice.


I did'nt join it to be stalked by a couple of people who seem to hve the knife out for me anmd twist whatever I say.

So until normal service is resumed I'm not posting on PBO anymore


Go on try and start a constructive thread of your own, see if you can manage that

Oh my dear fellow, please don't go off in a huff. Nobody's trying to twist what you say - I'm just trying to find out what you mean when you refer to exams that don't exist. It's great that you want to give advice, but it would be even greater if the advice made sense to a novice.

Tell you what - you correct the errors and ambiguities in your original post which I have attempted to clarify and I will happily delete all my posts here. How's that?

 

[RobF]

I'm afraid I concur with Uber in this respect. Nomenclature is pretty important. Are you referring to the RYA Coastal Skipper course, which has a course completion certificate or are you talking about the MCA Coastal Skipper which you rightly note is now called Yachtmaster coastal, or are you talking about the RYA Coastal Skipper / Yachtmaster offshore theory?

As you're probably aware, you get a certificate for the RYA Coastal Skipper if you complete the course successfully (and quite a few don't). You get an practical exam for the MCA Coastal Skipper (now called Yachtmaster Coastal) which is examined by an independent examiner (i.e. not the person who has done the prep week with you)

so to answer your points...

1)IMHO a course completion cerificate is valueless if an exam is available it just means you've attended and either failed or thought you'd fail the exam.

It depends - RYA Coastal Skipper course completion is a good stepping stone for the MCA Coastal skipper. I did both with a 2 year gap between. This was strongly commended by my original instructor, second instructor and examiner.

2) Theory - If any thoughts at all of skippering a yacht go straight to the full Ym/cs or whatever its called and skip the Dayskipper. Lot of the content is the same , major difference is the weather and the standard expected on Collision Regs

This would be where the Coastal Skipper / Yachtmaster offshore theory course with subsequent examination would be useful.

3)Practical Courses - Make sure you know the standard you are and go with it. Being of Dayskipper or competent crew standard on a Yachtmaster course boat just spoils it for yourself and the other course attendees. Part of the learning on a course is learning from peers as well as the instructor.

I think it is really useful for aspiring yachtmasters to have crew on their boat who are less competent and therefore require better direction / skippering. It is also useful for Day Skippers with higher intentions to see how the Yachtmaster course and examination work. Clearly you wouldn't want too many on the course.

4) Practical Exams, Definitely do the course preparation weeks for CS & YM, , it'll be fun , you'll learn a lot and make new friends. Don't blag your experience, the requirement is there for a reason.

I don't think you'll find too many people who will disagree with this.

5) Don't go on the same course as your partner go on separate courses

Depends on how you and your partner work as team / crew / skipper. For many people, the course is taken during a well earned holiday - and I quite like taking holidays with my wife.

6) Go on courses in winter if youu can cope with the cold, you'll learn a lot more with loads of night hours , tons of **** weather etc etc and sitting in the pub in front of the fire debriefing is a great end to the day.

You will get a better variety of sailing conditions in winter and the sailing area will be less crowded. Personally, I sail for enjoyment and being cold and miserable detracts from this. For this reason my boat isn't in the water between November and March. Naturally, each to their own.

7)The Solent is a cracking place to learn, lots of tides, pilotage , and rarely weatherboaund because of its sheltered nature Other places are more attractive as holiday destinations but rarely offer quite as much variety of challenge in a safe environment whilst learnig.

Solent is a cracking place to learn. So is Cornwall, Devon and the East Coast. I concur that learning to sail in Turkey or the BVIs may not give as much variety or challenge. It depends on whether you take your sailing seriously or you want to get the certificate whilst having a nice holiday (for the record - I did my MCA Coastal Skipper on the Solent in late October!).

Finally, please don't stop engaging with people on threads. I haven't found many trolls on this forum - most of us are trying help / clarify / suggest alternatives that can be accepted or rejected by the OP - but should definitely not be taken offence at.

 

[jimi]

Oh my dear fellow, please don't go off in a huff. Nobody's trying to twist what you say - I'm just trying to find out what you mean when you refer to exams that don't exist. It's great that you want to give advice, but it would be even greater if the advice made sense to a novice.

Tell you what - you correct the errors and ambiguities in your original post which I have attempted to clarify and I will happily delete all my posts here. How's that?

Take a running jump my friend.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

I have nothing to add to the debate as I'm new here but I certainly got the feeling that the OP was being hounded a bit, just my observation.

He may have been slightly wrong in assigning the exactly correct labels to things but the meaning and advice was clear enough.

 

[FullCircle]

Take a running jump my friend.

I am with jimi on this.

 

[jimi]

I'm afraid I concur with Uber in this respect. Nomenclature is pretty important. Are you referring to the RYA Coastal Skipper course, which has a course completion certificate or are you talking about the MCA Coastal Skipper which you rightly note is now called Yachtmaster coastal, or are you talking about the RYA Coastal Skipper / Yachtmaster offshore theory?

As you're probably aware, you get a certificate for the RYA Coastal Skipper if you complete the course successfully (and quite a few don't). You get an practical exam for the MCA Coastal Skipper (now called Yachtmaster Coastal) which is examined by an independent examiner (i.e. not the person who has done the prep week with you)


Finally, please don't stop engaging with people on threads. I haven't found many trolls on this forum - most of us are trying help / clarify / suggest alternatives that can be accepted or rejected by the OP - but should definitely not be taken offence at.

clues in thge first two words of the relevant points

2) Theory
3)Practical Courses
4) Practical Exams

Now as far as staying engaged goes I remain engaged if normal forum service resumes where if some can add something helpful and constructive to a thread they do so. However if this just results in harassment then I won't. Now anything incorrect , misleading or dangerous I will happily correct but in this case , not so.

It would have been easy for Uber to give details of the correct courses and thus supplement and enhance this thread but actually he seemed to busy stalking and harassing to add anything construvtive.

Over

 

[Ubergeekian]

Take a running jump my friend.

I'm sorry you feel like that. Because I'm nice, I'll do it for you, including tidying up spelling and punctuation. I hope you agree that this is what you meant to say. I've incorporated your later suggestion that candidates for Yachtmaster Offshore should take the Coastal Skipper practical course again, though I'd be interested to know if you intend that to be instead of a bespoke preparation week or as well as.

Jimi's Advice

1. IMHO a course completion certificate is valueless if an exam is available. It just means you've attended and either failed or thought you'd fail the exam.
2. Theory - If any thoughts at all of skippering a yacht go straight to the full Coastal Skipper / Yachtmaster Offshore and skip the Day Skipper. Lot of the content is the same , major difference is the weather and the standard expected on Collision Regs
3. Practical Courses - Make sure you know the standard you are and go with it. Being of Day Skipper or competent crew standard on a Yachtmaster course boat just spoils it for yourself and the other course attendees. Part of the learning on a course is learning from peers as well as the instructor.
4. Practical Exams - Definitely do the Coastal Skipper course before the Yachtmaster Coastal exam, and again before the Yachtmaster Offshore exam. It'll be fun, you'll learn a lot and make new friends. Don't blag your experience, the requirement is there for a reason.
5. Don't go on the same course as your partner, go on separate courses
6. Go on courses in winter if you can cope with the cold, you'll learn a lot more with loads of night hours, tons of **** weather etc etc and sitting in the pub in front of the fire debriefing is a great end to the day.
7. The Solent is a cracking place to learn, lots of tides, pilotage , and rarely weatherbound because of its sheltered nature Other places are more attractive as holiday destinations but rarely offer quite as much variety of challenge in a safe environment whilst learnig.

 

[Ubergeekian]

It would have been easy for Uber to give details of the correct courses and thus supplement and enhance this thread but actually he seemed to busy stalking and harassing to add anything construvtive.

Likewise, it would have been easy for you to correct your mistaken terminology instead of getting all upset and personal at having it pointed out. However, I hope that you agree that my edited version of your advice (above) is both correct and constructive.

 

[jimi]

Thank you Ubergeekian, now can you please also act upon my last bit of advice. Thanks in advance!

If you've got something to add take the credit yourself. Don't change what I said and impute it to me unless you ask me first.

Thank you. the meaning in point 4 is unclear please rephrase

 

[Ubergeekian]

I have nothing to add to the debate as I'm new here but I certainly got the feeling that the OP was being hounded a bit, just my observation.

He may have been slightly wrong in assigning the exactly correct labels to things but the meaning and advice was clear enough.

The trouble is that while his advice might have been clear to people who know the current and past RYA training schemes, it might not have been at all clear to a newcomer who didn't. Is it helpful to be advised to do the course preparation weeks for CS when there is no CS practical and, it turns out, the advice was meant to mean take the Coastal Skipper course (and not a preparation week, or possibly as well as a preparation week) before Yachtmaster Offshore?

I'm not stalking in the least. I have no reason to think that Jimi is anything other than a thoroughly splendid fellow and that his advice was honestly given and well-intentioned. My sole aim was to find out what he meant when he was being ambiguous and suggest a few corrections which I hoped would help a confused reader. His reaction has been unfortunate, perhaps, but that's not my fault and it's not my problem.

The offer to remove all my posts if he corrects his own initial one stands.

 

[jimi]

The offer to remove all my posts if he corrects his own initial one stands.

Initial post corrected & clarified

second last line

 

[planteater]

1)IMHO a course completion cerificate is valueless if an exam is available it just means you've attended and either failed or thought you'd fail the exam.

I personally didn't take the new Coastal Yachtmaster exam because:-

a) There is a fairly hefty charge for the exam
b) I wanted to learn rather than collect gongs

Course completion certificate is fine for me.

 

[Ubergeekian]

If you've got something to add take the credit yourself. Don't change what I said and impute it to me unless you ask me first.

I am quite deliberately not trying to change your advice, just make it clear and with the correct terminology. I don't want to take credit for your ideas, though I agree with most of them.

Thank you. the meaning in point 4 is unclear please rephrase

Well, you first said Definitely do the course preparation weeks for CS & YM and then you said my recommedation was to do the same practical course again when going for YM offshore. Since the preparatory course for the Yachtmaster Coastal (formerly Coastal Skipper) exam is the Coastal Skipper one, it seemed clear to me that you were recommending people to do that course twice. Did I get that wrong?

I'd be genuinely interested to know if you think that a second go at the Coastal Skipper practical course is a better preparation for Yachtmaster Offshore than the bespoke preparation weeks offered by many sea schools, and if so why you think so. Better to have more structure, perhaps?