Darn it ...... bl***y engine wont start - want to lift out boat.

[Refueler]

I was going to lift out the boat other day - but decided to leave her in for a bit more ... maybe there would be an odd day to have a last trip on the river.

But last night dropped to -5C ... my channel had ice on this morning ... decided time to get her out ... Primor 24 MoBo with Volvo Penta AQ170 ( the old B30 6 cyl car engine) ....

Engine turned over but then starting slowing on starter - till it decided it did not want to anymore ....

I have had a Bathroom Towel Rail heater in the engine bay last few days but its only 80W and of course boat is in the water ... so the heater must have struggled against that ... last year ashore - that heater kept engine bay above +5C even when outside was -20C etc.

Pulled the dipstick and the oil was cold and thick ... I mean REAL thick ... so I think my turning engine over lifted thick oil and she basically said - enough pal !!

I have a 500W heater in there now and we will try again tomorrow .. its about -4C out there now - expected to hit about -6C during the night ... my remote temp gauge (I have a radio remote temp gauge good for about 100m and a receiver display near my desk) is showing 15.5C in the engine bay ...... hoping this will warm up the sump / block and we can get her going ...

If not - then I will re-launch my speedboat and tow her round to lift point ..

all will be well ....

 

[Mr Googler]

Is the battery in good order too?

Would -5c have that much effect on the oil? Genuine question

 

[jon and michie]

Is the battery in good order too?

Would -5c have that much effect on the oil? Genuine question

Agreed a decent battery should have good CCA for the temps stated
As for the oil - most viscosities should be good for that ie 10w/40 can go as low as -30c and 15w/40 can do -25c - without knowing the specifications of the OP then its just a guess

I have had a Bathroom Towel Rail heater in the engine bay last few days but its only 80W and of course boat is in the water .

Being in the water actually provides some insulation as opposed to being on the hard and exposed

last year ashore - that heater kept engine bay above +5C even when outside was -20C etc.

Was the heater working in this instance ?

 

[Refueler]

All valid points and the whole is strange ...

I'm praying that I have not Hydro-locked the engine ... it crossed my mind late last night that if the water OUT was frozen - cranking the engine COULD lead to manifold back-filling and hydro-locking the engine.

Batterys new beginning of year .... Victron dual smart BT charger ..

Towel Rail warm as it should be.

This morning -4C now .. my remote sensor shows +14C in engine bay ... so later today we can get her going ...

I agree that -5C should not make the oil so thick .... its bog standard 10-40W ..

If engine does not start - then I have option to relaunch the Progress and tow her to lift out ... this re-inforces my project to fix the slipway I have .. it has a step in it that trailer bottoms out on due to the different concrete blocks used.

 

[jon and michie]

what are the electrical connections at the engine like ? - if greasy or dirty this will pose a problem as well

 

[vas]

All valid points and the whole is strange ...

I'm praying that I have not Hydro-locked the engine ... it crossed my mind late last night that if the water OUT was frozen - cranking the engine COULD lead to manifold back-filling and hydro-locking the engine.

Batterys new beginning of year .... Victron dual smart BT charger ..

Towel Rail warm as it should be.

This morning -4C now .. my remote sensor shows +14C in engine bay ... so later today we can get her going ...

I agree that -5C should not make the oil so thick .... its bog standard 10-40W ..

If engine does not start - then I have option to relaunch the Progress and tow her to lift out ... this re-inforces my project to fix the slipway I have .. it has a step in it that trailer bottoms out on due to the different concrete blocks used.

good luck, surely leg water outlet is under any thin ice you may have, shouldn't be a problem. Thick oil at that temp is a bit odd.
can you have a frozen impeller or something there causing issues? although tbh if so it would break shaft or somehow slip and end up with no cooling once moving which I guess is not nice

shall I suggest you move down here? was 22-25 most of last week, only yesterday wind turned and is coming from the north leading to temps dropping to 12-16C

 

[Refueler]

OK ... removed spark-plugs and turned engine by hand ... she's not water-locked !! Thank G**.

Even with plugs out though - starter would not turn engine ... so we think starter has taken a dive ....

Decided to risk her staying in for a few more days .... temps are in the 0 .. -5C range ... so ice will increase - its about 5mm ~ at present ..

Job now is sorting my slipway and get boat out at there at home ...



As you see - its not straight angle .. trailer bottoms out at top and mid section ...

Using HIAB and my Mini Excavator - we started by moving the top 6 small concrete blocks then digging out the undersoil ... excavator decided to blow a hose !!

Will be back on job tomorrow.

 

[Refueler]

Think we've narrowed it down .... like so often - it becomes the simpler reason ...

Noted yesterday that there was no CLONK as solenoid operated .. just a 'sizzle' then nothing. Any key press after that - silence.

Suspected Solenoid failure ...

Last night really dipped in temp .. still -6C out there now and its 09:00 .... have asked my crane pal to see if he'll risk a truck on my ground .. last time - it got stuck and took half a day to drag it out .. boat is 1.5T - so no big truck needed ..

My worry is to get her moved before ice becomes unbreakable ..

 

[bowler]

Good luck. Hope it goes well. At least the starter is an easy fix!

 

[oldgit]

Welcome to the world of old marine petrol engines.
Had a pair of Mercruiser 4 cylinder rust balls in a Regal. A light dew within 50 miles and you might not be going anywhere soon.
If they both started and got you there , Praise the Lord.
On one occassion we were towed back to safety by a passing Dutch yacht.

Recently speaking to somebody who was rebuilding a Broom which sunk on the Thames
The boat was raised and the diesel engines were recommission and got going again in situ.

 

[Boathook]

Think we've narrowed it down .... like so often - it becomes the simpler reason ...

Noted yesterday that there was no CLONK as solenoid operated .. just a 'sizzle' then nothing. Any key press after that - silence.

Suspected Solenoid failure ...

Last night really dipped in temp .. still -6C out there now and its 09:00 .... have asked my crane pal to see if he'll risk a truck on my ground .. last time - it got stuck and took half a day to drag it out .. boat is 1.5T - so no big truck needed ..

My worry is to get her moved before ice becomes unbreakable ..

Use rollers (old telephone poles type) and drag boat up ramp, assuming engine leg lifts clear of ground ?

 

[Refueler]

My pal with lifter will be here 08:30 in morning ... trailers ready there .. tractor as well to tow trailer ...

Ice was couple of cm's thick - so hard to move boat ... but steady careful pull by tractor and bow rode the ice like an Ice-Breaker ... ride up on ... weight then breaks it ...
I don't think any damage to hull .. will find out once lifted.

Regarding leg - she's full down and I don't want to operate the leg lift until I'm sure its OK ...

Crazy thing is .... + temps coming for next few days ! But anyway - better out and then we can work on engine etc.

 

[Refueler]

Truck had problem this morning ... my pal apologised that he couldn't lift today ...

Weather already warming - river ice is starting to thaw ... if it carries on for a few days - my channel should near clear.

We are continuing work on the slipway ... digging out to level the concrete blocks ... but its not so easy as the slope makes the excavator and tractor unstable ...

 

[ylop]

is the ground not frozen?

 

[BB1]

One of the things that often get overlooked is battery cables, in older boats they are generally undersized and of course with age they won't carry the amps so well, I like the Furneaux Riddall Ocean Flex tin coated cable, always over size it and you will get full volts and amps to the starter stopping it burning out.

 

[Refueler]

is the ground not frozen?

Only for a few cms and that is thawing already ...

When Eric moved to the land next to me - he added 'height' to his land ... which I asked him to take care as already part of my land took run-off from there .. draining to my channel ... but he ignored .. thought that planting a few water sapping trees and a soakaway pipe (we are talking approx 100m long ) would solve .. of course it didn't.

So I have wet land - then it froze - now its thawing .. having been wet - even my small truck has problems there ..
It does not help also that this year has been one of the wettest ever ..

 

[Refueler]

Last year I had problem with starter .. it was intermittent on meshing - causing the high pitched metal to metal sound .. you'd stop - turn key again and it would mesh ..
Starter motor itself was turning well .. it had new solenoid fitted just a month earlier ...

Idea to take new solenoid and fit to the replacement starter fitted on boat ...

Today my mate - I showed him the old starter that was taken off last year .. he took it to electrics guy who said starter and bendix are fine - but the 'new solenoid' was wrong one and likely causing the poor throw of the bendix ... he now has the old solenoid and starter ..

Idea is that if he gets that to work properly ... then we swap out the 'new' starter and put back the original ... start engine and hopefully a clear interval to go to municipal slipway 1km away and lift out as normal ...

My slipway will of course be sorted so I have own slip later ..

We also have to move the pontoons ... the heavy metal tube based will be pulled to bank and beached to then have all woodwork replaced and extra barrel bouyancy added.
The plastic barrel pontoon will be lifted and brought ashore - IF truck can do it without too much hassle on the ground.

 

[Fire99]

One of the things that often get overlooked is battery cables, in older boats they are generally undersized and of course with age they won't carry the amps so well, I like the Furneaux Riddall Ocean Flex tin coated cable, always over size it and you will get full volts and amps to the starter stopping it burning out.

Certainly have a good inspection of starter cabling.. I've noticed on my boat they were pretty much ignored with dirty terminals and no protection.. Funny how they had nice new shiny bolts holding terminals on but no thought to cleaning them nor protecting them from the elements.

 

[Refueler]

OK ... starter and solenoid is back ... turns out that the original solenoid - I still had it - had suffered water into the cable contact end .. corrosion and also some evident of arcing - causing the moulded plastic interior to have damage evidence.
The solenoid that previous repair guy fitted - turned out to be wrong as it had a shorter 'throw' making the bendix unreliable to engage.

New cable connector box fitted to old solenoid .. tested and guy gave it a 100% thumbs up !

Now we wait for rain to stop .. and have a clear interval to open up boat and fit the old starter back ...

IF successful - then its round to slip and out !!

 

[Fire99]

OK ... starter and solenoid is back ... turns out that the original solenoid - I still had it - had suffered water into the cable contact end .. corrosion and also some evident of arcing - causing the moulded plastic interior to have damage evidence.
The solenoid that previous repair guy fitted - turned out to be wrong as it had a shorter 'throw' making the bendix unreliable to engage.

New cable connector box fitted to old solenoid .. tested and guy gave it a 100% thumbs up !

Now we wait for rain to stop .. and have a clear interval to open up boat and fit the old starter back ...

IF successful - then its round to slip and out !!

Good news..