Dangerous diesel heaters impounded

So When I bought my boat before this one . it had an eber but he had taken the unit off as it would not fire , but he gave it me on purchase of the boat . So I sent it to dealer all working then I refitted to existing bits fired up on first switch on . So 3 months later November first time we used it , I had nodded off wife woke me up the saloon was full of fumes of some sort , opened patio door switched heater off . So investigated the dick who installed had wrapped asbestos tape around the exhaust pipe . It could have been fatal, So the message is that what ever the make or who installed it . Get a CO ALARM.
 
Seastoke said:
So When I bought my boat before this one . it had an eber but he had taken the unit off as it would not fire , but he gave it me on purchase of the boat . So I sent it to dealer all working then I refitted to existing bits fired up on first switch on . So 3 months later November first time we used it , I had nodded off wife woke me up the saloon was full of fumes of some sort , opened patio door switched heater off . So investigated the dick who installed had wrapped asbestos tape around the exhaust pipe . It could have been fatal, So the message is that what ever the make or who installed it . Get a CO ALARM.
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Every boat should have a Co alarm, even if nothing onboard to create Co. It's easy to get a boat full of Co from a neighboring boat. There was a case on the broads a couple of years or so ago, a couple nearly died because someone moored up next to them was running petrol engines and the fumes got in the other boat, they were very lucky to survive.
 
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jon and michie said:
But Then if someone hasn't fitted a diesel heater wouldn't they want to get some knowledge of them in the first place ?
What would you do if you wanted to buy an expensive boat for the first time ? just jump in or ask what is involved not only in the buying process but additional costs etc
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I think we might be comparing apples with pears here. If buying a new boat I would absolutely do lots of research but the information would be coming from companies building boats to relevant standards so the information I needed would be readily available and given the sources I could have some degree of confidence in it.

Installing a ‘chinaspacher’ safely relies not upon clear guidance and support from the manufacturer but instead upon the vagaries of researching social media and the internet and even then only if one knows that much of what comes in the box isn’t fit for purpose on a boat. An inherently dodgy situation whichever way you look at it.

Sure, some find out what they need to know and will do a good job but what about those that don’t?

We just had a wood burner installed at home and because it could, in theory at least, be a danger to life if installed incorrectly the guys who did it have to be certified and they have to sign off on the installation. No such rules apply to boat heating systems, which in itself creates an element of risk, but add to the mix what I have described and it certainly doesn’t improve the situation IMHO.

To provide some context a good mate has installed two heaters from China on his boat and as he is very competent so I am pretty sure that they will be safe and he has saved himself a reasonable chunk of money. The thing is that not everyone will be as competent as he is 🙂
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Seastoke said:
So When I bought my boat before this one . it had an eber but he had taken the unit off as it would not fire , but he gave it me on purchase of the boat . So I sent it to dealer all working then I refitted to existing bits fired up on first switch on . So 3 months later November first time we used it , I had nodded off wife woke me up the saloon was full of fumes of some sort , opened patio door switched heater off . So investigated the dick who installed had wrapped asbestos tape around the exhaust pipe . It could have been fatal, So the message is that what ever the make or who installed it . Get a CO ALARM.
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What do you think was wrong with wrapping "asbestos" tape around the exhaust pipe? Realistically in this day and age it's highly unlikely that it would be actual asbestos, but what would be the problem with covering the exhaust pipe with suitable heat resistant insulation? Where in the boat was the heater installed? What were the fumes? Is it not more likely that the exhaust lagging was damp, and the fumes were harmless steam? Sorry for so many questions, but you seem to be blaming the installer, and it would be good to get to the bottom of this.
 
webcraft said:
I am judging by the levels of participation in these groups, and the fact that I obviously have a higher opinion of boat owners than you and Mr. Rainbow.

- W
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The problem is that it only takes one person who doesn't realise the risks and doesn't do his homework to result in a tragedy. It will happen. Hopefully he won't kill his family at the same time.
 
Seastoke said:
So When I bought my boat before this one . it had an eber but he had taken the unit off as it would not fire , but he gave it me on purchase of the boat . So I sent it to dealer all working then I refitted to existing bits fired up on first switch on . So 3 months later November first time we used it , I had nodded off wife woke me up the saloon was full of fumes of some sort , opened patio door switched heater off . So investigated the dick who installed had wrapped asbestos tape around the exhaust pipe . It could have been fatal, So the message is that what ever the make or who installed it . Get a CO ALARM.
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Asbestos - I doubt unless it was wrapped in the the 90's.
If it was proper exhaust wrap - when you do fire the heater up for the first couple of times it will give off some smoke - why it entered the cabin is more worrying?
 
Not sure about numbers but the Chinaspachers have been on sale in the UK for at least a decade, tens of thousands ?, again not sure about the numbers fitted to boats, thousands ?, but you will search long and hard to find reports of fatalites directly linked to chinaspachers .
There have been Monoxide casualties but the few reported in the UK appear to suggest that other brands of heater were involved and inappropiate use was the problem.
 
petem said:
The problem is that it only takes one person who doesn't realise the risks and doesn't do his homework to result in a tragedy. It will happen. Hopefully he won't kill his family at the same time.
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So none of us should do any work at all on potentially dangerous systems on our boats, including electrical work,through-hulls, rigging, any mast climbing etc etc?

Anyone with a combustion appliance on their boat and no CO alarm is asking for trouble. I fitted a CO alarm when I fitted the Chinaspacher, and it has never registered anything even when the heater has been running for several hours. However, when cooking with the washboards in the CO level quickly reaches a hgh enough level to show on the alarm.

Maybe no-one should be allowed a gas cooker on board?
 
webcraft said:
So none of us should do any work at all on potentially dangerous systems on our boats, including electrical work,through-hulls, rigging, any mast climbing etc etc?
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I would say yes dont do any work on anything which is potentially dangerous - if you haven't done your homework that is.
You would expect a surgeon carrying out a heart transplant to have some sort of training / knowledge of what he's doing before jumping in with a scalpel
 
I do honestly think (in my opinion) that this thread will always be 50/50 and there is a 2 simple answers to both sides

1 if you get a diesel heater whether it be an Eber, Webasto or a Chinese version - they are all dangerous and carry the potential to harm if installed wrongly.
2 if you are going to install a heater yourself do your homework and research before jumping in - and yes if its a Chinese one you're going to have to buy extra parts to make them safe for your install.

This is just my opinion as this thread seems to be going round in circles
 
webcraft said:
So none of us should do any work at all on potentially dangerous systems on our boats, including electrical work,through-hulls, rigging, any mast climbing etc etc?

Anyone with a combustion appliance on their boat and no CO alarm is asking for trouble. I fitted a CO alarm when I fitted the Chinaspacher, and it has never registered anything even when the heater has been running for several hours. However, when cooking with the washboards in the CO level quickly reaches a hgh enough level to show on the alarm.

Maybe no-one should be allowed a gas cooker on board?
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I imagine that there's a lot of CO alarms out there that aren't working or at least regularly tested.

As for cooking, that's generally something that is done when people are awake. Not like a heater where there's a temptation to run it when people are sleeping and less aware. Or someone nods off when it's running.

Any by your logic, should we just abandon the Gas Safe Register and let people fit want they want from YouTube videos? After all, if professional fitting for a boat isn't necessary then who should it be necessary for a house?

And if fitting these things on a boat is so simple then why are people making potentially fatal mistakes as pointed out by VolvoPaul earlier in this thread?
 
Boating in general is potentially dangerous. Believe it or not, there are dozens of magazines and countless books published to help people mitigate these dangers. To say that a particular source of heater is dangerous because people write about them in forums is ludicrous.
It was a sad day when common sense was abolished.
 
NormanS said:
Boating in general is potentially dangerous. Believe it or not, there are dozens of magazines and countless books published to help people mitigate these dangers. To say that a particular source of heater is dangerous because people write about them in forums is ludicrous.
It was a sad day when common sense was abolished.
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If it is so simple and with so much information available, why are people still undertaking potentially lethal installations?
 
I just bought some Chinese life jackets. From scouring the internet and reading a few Facebook groups it would appear that there are very good value, as they only cost £19.99 for auto inflate, with spray hoods and torches. Only issues would seem to be, the batteries for the torch leak and burn holes in the life jacket, so that needs to be replaced. The firing mechanism doesn't work and the Co2 cylinders are supplied empty, made worse by the lack of an oral inflater, so important to replace those. Also ther spray hood isn't securely attached, so you need to do a little stitching.

All in all, a really good deal, as long as you are of aware of the defective equipment and can change the parts yourself.
 
PaulRainbow said:
I just bought some Chinese life jackets. From scouring the internet and reading a few Facebook groups it would appear that there are very good value, as they only cost £19.99 for auto inflate, with spray hoods and torches. Only issues would seem to be, the batteries for the torch leak and burn holes in the life jacket, so that needs to be replaced. The firing mechanism doesn't work and the Co2 cylinders are supplied empty, made worse by the lack of an oral inflater, so important to replace those. Also ther spray hood isn't securely attached, so you need to do a little stitching.

All in all, a really good deal, as long as you are of aware of the defective equipment and can change the parts yourself.
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If you bought sensibly, I'm sure you'll be able to return them for refund.
 
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