Cutting a hole in the slug - the practical side

[James W]

of course once the shed load of money I have on order arrives then I shall go out and buy a Fisher 25

I will then give the slug to the nearest deserving case

A Fisher 25? What happened to the Centaur plan?

 

[ProDave]

Don't say that.. I'm considering a lap of the UK at some point and my Honda only drinks Unleaded.

One of the locals did a round trip in his Sonata, and happened upon several days of calm weather with no wind.

He recalled his trip in a talk and slide show recently, and his "morning ritual" was to take his 8 petrol cans on a walk on a trolley to the nearest petrol station to fill up.

The further North you go, the longer that walk will be. North of here, you can very easilly be 10 miles or more from a petrol station. So you do need to think very carefully about fuel and where you are going to get it.

 

[dylanwinter]

brilliant news

I really think you are grasping at straws with all these outlandish ideas.

You talk about the problems of getting over the conditions at certain Suffolk/Norfolk river entrances. If you continue around Britian (as is your aim) you won't come across any more of these and in any event ANY inboard (even one stuck in forward) will do you better than an o/b - well or transom.

I, for one, wouldn't go round Britain relying on an O/B. No doubt others have -or no engine at all- but an inboard that will start reliably is your biggest safety factor.

Either get a new boat so we don't get any more of the slug/beast problems or get the inboard sorted. Several posters have offered to look at the gearbox if you get it out of the boat.

Either that or re-engine. Where on earth does your figure of £5k come from? Buy a s/h yanmar for less then £1k. £500 should be plenty for the extras (hoses, couplings etc) and DO-IT-YOURSELF Thousands have and it is not rocket science and at least then you have some knowledge of the mechanics of the boat.

Honestly Dylan, we are your supporters and want a practical solution for you so FFS get on with it.

David,

deeply sorry to upset your equanimity by posting questions here

or not travelling fast enough

please feel free to suggest another forum I should be using

or the other alternative is for you to ignore all future posts from me



I am not sure that cutting an outboard well is all that outlandish an idea

however, if you say that it is then it might well be

this was a genuine attempt to find out what is involved and I now know a lot more about it than I did last night when I started thinking about the possibility

I am greatly re-assured to find out from you that that I will not be encountering any more bars on my journey around the UK

I completely agree that an engine that will reliably start is a great safety feature

it is getting from where I am now to that position that is my current concern

I really want to avoid being stuck in a harbour with a broken engine - an experience I have enjoyed three times on this journey already

I hear what you say about inboards being ideal but it is my guess that a reliable outboard is a better safety feature than an unreliable inboard

as for the price of re-engining - the last quote I got from a professional for merely removing and replacing the engine without doing any work on it was £1200.

I am not sure throwing out one engine and bunging in another second hand engine is really making much progress - assuming the engine you suggests would fit the same hole.

When the 50 year old engine mounts went west the job involved welding gear, grizzly disks, micrometers and a lot of tools I do not posses - and that is without getting into the skills required

Perhaps you have done the job yourself and are speaking from experience - I had always assumed that taking out one type of engine and replacing it with another is not a job to be undertaken lightly

the £5 k figure came from other people on these forums

sorry for ruining your day by seeking enlightenment on a sailing forum dedicated to the practicalities of keeping a boat going

Dylan

here is a narrative about some poeple who did it in a month


http://taketworibs.blogspot.co.uk/

 

[prv]

as for the price of re-engining - the last quote I got from a professional for merely removing and replacing the engine without doing any work on it was £1200.

Well that's bonkers for a start - must have been a ****-off price as he didn't want the job.

A mate and I took the engine out of KS using some borrowed scaffolding and a £20 electric hoist from Aldi. The hoist wasn't bought for the job, so the total cost was zero (or a bit of diesel for my mate to drive a Discovery full of scaffolding down to Southampton, if you want to count that).

I know you always cite your "impossible" engine compartment, but mine is pretty tight too. The current engine is double the size of what the boat was designed for; the front pulley rubbed on the front of the box, and the dipstick at the side had to be replaced with a special curved one as there was no room to pull it out. Headroom at the top of the engine is inches (there's a funnel on a hose for getting the oil in, as there's no room for an oil bottle above the filler) and it has to come forward into the cabin before it can be lifted up; the hoist wire cannot come vertically down through the companionway and onto the engine.

I'm no engine mechanic so can't really comment on fixing the engine once it's out, but getting it out and in again just isn't that big a deal.

Pete

 

[dylanwinter]

I am sure you are correct

Well that's bonkers for a start - must have been a ****-off price as he didn't want the job.

A mate and I took the engine out of KS using some borrowed scaffolding and a £20 electric hoist from Aldi. The hoist wasn't bought for the job, so the total cost was zero (or a bit of diesel for my mate to drive a Discovery full of scaffolding down to Southampton, if you want to count that).

I know you always cite your "impossible" engine compartment, but mine is pretty tight too. The current engine is double the size of what the boat was designed for; the front pulley rubbed on the front of the box, and the dipstick at the side had to be replaced with a special curved one as there was no room to pull it out. Headroom at the top of the engine is inches (there's a funnel on a hose for getting the oil in, as there's no room for an oil bottle above the filler) and it has to come forward into the cabin before it can be lifted up; the hoist wire cannot come vertically down through the companionway and onto the engine.

I'm no engine mechanic so can't really comment on fixing the engine once it's out, but getting it out and in again just isn't that big a deal.

Pete

I assume he did not like the look of the job and put in a price that would put me off

He said that it was a two day job to get it out and off the pontoon, into a transit and onto his bench and a two day job to put it back again

the mechanic price was around £300 a day as I remember


Dylan

 

[prv]

He said that it was a two day job to get it out and off the pontoon, into a transit and onto his bench

Fair point about getting it off the pontoon. We were doing it in the yard, so could drive my Polo right up next to the boat. Since the boot lid prevented us from lowering the engine in using the hoist, we lowered the engine to the ground, reversed right up to it, then three of us manhandled the lump up and into the car. The Polo has a relatively high boot sill, so we put the back seats down and put a couple of bits of scrap timber as sloping rails from the lip of the sill to the edge of the folded back seats. The engine slid down those rails onto the back of the folded seats.

I can't remember how we got it out again at the engine shop; some very careful forklift driving through the rear passenger door I think.

Pete

 

[davidej]

Sorry if I have upset you- I don't mean to

I just want you to focus on sorting this out.

I absolutely love your films and just want you to do more of what you are good at and less
time sorting out mechanical problems.

Perhaps you are right and I should stop looking at your posts until you are 'back on the road' with your travels.

 

[dylanwinter]

I am trying to sort it

Sorry if I have upset you- I don't mean to

I just want you to focus on sorting this out.

I absolutely love your films and just want you to do more of what you are good at and less
time sorting out mechanical problems.

Perhaps you are right and I should stop looking at your posts until you are 'back on the road' with your travels.

thanks for your good will and emotional involvement with the journey.

I would much rather be sailing, filming and editing than the fettling with the boat

and I have spent too many weeks over the past four years focussing exclusively on getting the engine sorted

I thought several times that I have put the engine problems to bed

three times at least.... but again and again it has contrived to throw something new at me

I even called one of the vlogs "all fixed" after I had rebuilt the back end

after all new back end, well set up engine - what else was there to go awry?

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/video-logs/repair-the-hole-5/

but KTL is an underfunded journey

the choice of the slug is not an affectation - obvioulsy no-one in their right mind (Nathan clearly counts as being not in his right mind) would choose a 50 year old heap for a journey like this

at £2,000 the slug was the price I could afford

it left me £1000 to cover the costs of the first year of journeying

I assume that there are quite a few yacht owners whose marina bills for one year are more than the total four year costs for ktl

on the other hand....it is good that you like the films and feel emotionally involved with the endeavour - even though you find it frustrating

believe me, I find it frustrating at times as well and to find myself in Wells for a second a winter has come as a real dissapointment - although it is a wonderful place

Dylan

 

[davidej]

Abrahams bosom

Lovely film.

Anchored there several times myself -though not in such chilly weather!

 

[CreakyDecks]

I have an outboard in a well and I don't find it takes up a huge amount of cockpit space. It is certainly not as inconvenient as my mainsheet traveller, which I fall over continually
One advantage of a well that no-one has mentioned is that an outboard in a well is hard to see, so it might be less likely to attract scrotes than one hanging off the back end.
Having said all that, to me I would expect an internal diesel in good condition to be more reliable than an outboard simply because a vertical cylinder just "seems" right (Germans would disagree) and spark plugs and oily petrol don't really mix. I could imagine a diesel running all day without any problem but in my experience that just doesn't happen with outboards, they seem to like to be thrashed for short periods and then given a rest. Then again, that encourages the use of the sails!

 

[Niander]

THink youll find modern 4 stroke outboards are very good nowadays...but also very expensive!
[saying that though i had a yam twin 10 hp 2stroke in a well and it was very good also]
except the well fills up with smoke..but thats another issue!
but you could always get a second hand honda four stroke!..for maybe £250
my four stroke petrol inboard is ancient but then im good with a spanner so thats ok then...

 

[LONG_KEELER]

You don't have to go too far north to struggle. There's none within a couple of miles of Scarborough marina, but I got an offer of a lift to get some from the first person I asked about fuel.
I wouldn't worry too much. People can be extremely generous.

I know we all have our personal choices. In my case, I loved having an outboard in a well. Can understand the racing boys wanting to lift it out but it worked on every level for me.

Yes, people are mainly extremely generous. In every case that I can remember, when leaving the lane or whatever with petrol cans, people always stopped and took me to a garage. Invariably, they insisted on driving me back too. Thats the beauty of sailing.

 

[Fire99]

One of the locals did a round trip in his Sonata, and happened upon several days of calm weather with no wind.

He recalled his trip in a talk and slide show recently, and his "morning ritual" was to take his 8 petrol cans on a walk on a trolley to the nearest petrol station to fill up.

The further North you go, the longer that walk will be. North of here, you can very easilly be 10 miles or more from a petrol station. So you do need to think very carefully about fuel and where you are going to get it.

I don't want to hijack Dylans thread but interesting stuff, thanks. My 4T O/B is pretty economical but I'd certainly have to think carefully about the fuel issue when 'lapping the Isle'

Dylan, regarding the Well, I'm currently rebuilding mine and Fitting a new Cockpit floor. With a bit of planning and savvy, I'd say the whole Well and Transom (to mount O/B on) could be done in a few days, start to finish. Not sure about lockers etc on the 'Slug', they may need a bit more thought. That said, i'm sure the boat would be usable before sorting the lockers out.

 

[dylanwinter]

measurements

I don't want to hijack Dylans thread but interesting stuff, thanks. My 4T O/B is pretty economical but I'd certainly have to think carefully about the fuel issue when 'lapping the Isle'

Dylan, regarding the Well, I'm currently rebuilding mine and Fitting a new Cockpit floor. With a bit of planning and savvy, I'd say the whole Well and Transom (to mount O/B on) could be done in a few days, start to finish. Not sure about lockers etc on the 'Slug', they may need a bit more thought. That said, i'm sure the boat would be usable before sorting the lockers out.

I am going to take some measurements

see where I need to put in extra bulkheads and strengthening

not going to do it before the winter unless the beast gives up on me
then I will have a go

the lockers will need some careful thought
Dylan

 

[Niander]

I dont think the petrol thing is a problem
most of the harbors in scotland will be near a garage
and dont forget we use the wind most of the time
i agree people will give lifts to a garage
and a couple of cans will last a while
remember though to hide them if going on a bus!...

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I am going to take some measurements

see where I need to put in extra bulheads and strengthening

not going to do it before the winter unless the beast gives up on me
then I will have a go

the lockers will need some careful thought
Dylan

Something that may or may not be worth considering Dylan.

If you decided to go for the "well" option, you could keep the 2.3 Honda as a tender engine on the transom using a captive bracket.

Not only could this engine be a back up primary power source using the same fuel, you could keep a blow up tender where the lump used to be.

 

[dylanwinter]

storage space

Something that may or may not be worth considering Dylan.

If you decided to go for the "well" option, you could keep the 2.3 Honda as a tender engine on the transom using a captive bracket.

Not only could this engine be a back up primary power source using the same fuel, you could keep a blow up tender where the lump used to be.

that is true

it would release a lot of space

although never really needed a tender so far on the journey

good storage for fuel cans, food, cameras.

 

[Fire99]

I am going to take some measurements

see where I need to put in extra bulkheads and strengthening

not going to do it before the winter unless the beast gives up on me
then I will have a go

the lockers will need some careful thought
Dylan

Well i'll post a few dozen photos, once mine is finished. May either help or send you to sleep. (Which in itself may be a bonus. )

 

[Yantlet]

Lots of answers here?

I am going to take some measurements

see where I need to put in extra bulkheads and strengthening

not going to do it before the winter unless the beast gives up on me
then I will have a go

the lockers will need some careful thought
Dylan

http://atomvoyages.com/articles/improvement-projects/249-outboard-1.html
http://www.grapeviewpointboatworks.com/caledonia_gunter.html

 

[LONG_KEELER]

that is true

it would release a lot of space

although never really needed a tender so far on the journey

good storage for fuel cans, food, cameras.

Yes. Extra space is good.

My adventures were not as epic as yours have been, and probably and will be in the future.

I did find an ancient avon very handy on occasions. I often found that a friendly local club would let me lie on a mooring for a week or two. Particularly in bad weather. Often, they were close to being all tide. I could row ashore at times suiting trains , pick up's etc and leave the avon somewhere or roll it up fairly small to go into a boot.

The thought of leaving the boat in a marina for a week costing about £150
was a prime motive.