LauraKatie
New Member
There is a relly usefull set of straps on E-bay by "carrymaster". Excellent value simple to fit with instructions and you get a strap for each leg so comfortable to wear.
Crutch straps
- Thread starter bilbobaggins
- Start date
planteater
Well-Known Member
Not quite true with an auto jacket - there's no real buoyancy until the thing inflates. By then you are bobbing back up again, anyway.
grumpy_o_g
Well-Known Member
According to an RNLI chat some time back one of the reasons they like crotch straps is that a couple of hefty lifeboatmen may well grab hold of your lifejacket to haul you aboard if you're in the water.
Apparently they have been left holding a lifejacket with a now lifejacket-less victim in the water.
I been thinking about exactly where the crotch strap goes when I'm wearing it and the effect of all my body weight and sodden clothes upon it..... On reflection I may change the crotch strap on my lifejacket for the thigh strap type.
Apparently they have been left holding a lifejacket with a now lifejacket-less victim in the water.
I been thinking about exactly where the crotch strap goes when I'm wearing it and the effect of all my body weight and sodden clothes upon it..... On reflection I may change the crotch strap on my lifejacket for the thigh strap type.
bilbobaggins
N/A
Have we all had a good airing of the preferences? Good! That's what this is for.....
Personally, I don't give a tu'penny stuff what you prefer, so long as you've deliberately chosen that. Your choice.....
Some have been encouraged to do some thinking about this. Fine.....
Personally, I don't give a tu'penny stuff what you prefer, so long as you've deliberately chosen that. Your choice.....
Some have been encouraged to do some thinking about this. Fine.....
jhr
Well-Known Member
Eric Tabarly?
Elessar
Well-Known Member
Have we all had a good airing of the preferences? Good! That's what this is for.....
Personally, I don't give a tu'penny stuff what you prefer, so long as you've deliberately chosen that. Your choice.....
Some have been encouraged to do some thinking about this. Fine.....
You won't then give a stuff that I totally agree with every word of this 5* reply.
bilbobaggins
N/A
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
100% with you on that Bilbo....
FWIW, our lifejackets all have crutch straps, and we use them.
I don't really care what others choose to do, as long as they are comfortable with their decisions.
FWIW, our lifejackets all have crutch straps, and we use them.
I don't really care what others choose to do, as long as they are comfortable with their decisions.
bbg
Well-Known Member
As others say - do as you wish. Personally, I tend not to wear a LJ when I am on fully crewed boats (I can remember the last time - it was about 1990). BUT, when I am sailing alone, I tend to wear one with an integral harness, and recognise the harness is at least as important as the LJ. I have met two people who have fallen off while solo racing. One was kept close to the boat by his harness and managed, after some effort to get back aboard. The other was wearing a harness but no LJ, and the D ring broke. He surfaced to see his boat sailing away from him, and was lucky to be picked up by another competitor.
There are a lot of factors that play into the decision on whether or not to wear a LJ, and I am by no means in the camp that says they need to be worn at all times. But, having done the ISAF safety course, I am convinced that, if it is worth putting on a LJ, it is worth wearing the crotch (or in my case thigh) straps.
As for the stats, I looked at the source data on the USCG site. They identify fatalities from drowning. They do not identify survivors. The real data that would be interesting is numbers of people who fell in and were retrieved. Perhaps sorted by how long they were in the water and by LJ use or not. One of the other factors the data quoted ignore is sprayhood use. We are all told that a sprayhood is essential to keep water out of the face - to avoid drowning.
And the final point about the statistics is that they suggest that crotch straps ARE important. One possible cause of drowning while wearing a LJ is that it fits poorly.
So my opinion, FWIW, (and what I do in practice) is that I will make a decision each time I go out as to whether or not to put on a LJ. But if I put one on, it will be with thigh straps and an integral sprayhood, because those two things will improve the performance immensely.
fireball
Well-Known Member
SWMBO and I bought new LJs this year - previous ones "came with the boat" and were the standard Auto LJs, no additional straps or stuff and not overly comfortable to wear.
We tried on the Spinlock jackets - they just felt bulky around the neck/shoulder area. So I tried on the Kru Sport Pros - and these felt much more like our buoyancy aids we're used to wearing whilst racing the dinghy.
First things first - if the LJ isn't comfortable you ain't gonna wanna wear it ... so make sure you're happy with the wearability first!
As for crotch straps - never liked them (uncomfortable) and even though the Kru has them on we don't (yet) use them. This may change if we're out in weather where we think they might need to be used!
Athene V30
Well-Known Member
I usually remember to put on a LJ before I go sailing but what I forget to do is use the lifeline. As a singlehanded sailor there is no one to turn the boat about and come back for me so 'one hand for yourself and one for the ship' is essential.
I have already decided that when I go off soundings I am NOT going to wear a LJ, just a harness. If I go overboard what is the point in floating for days waiting to die?
I have already decided that when I go off soundings I am NOT going to wear a LJ, just a harness. If I go overboard what is the point in floating for days waiting to die?
Refueler
Well-Known Member
maybh1
Well-Known Member
Having once seen a child fall into a river with a lifejacket on and then fall through the lifejacket when someone tried to haul her out by the collar the rule on our boat is that no child is allowed outside our saloon without lifejacket and crutch straps firmly in place even when the boat is moored in the marina.
The child in question was then grabbed hold of by her long blond hair and helped to safety
May
xx
The child in question was then grabbed hold of by her long blond hair and helped to safety
May
xx
bbg
Well-Known Member
That (and the nature of my sailing) is the reason I bought a McMurdo PLB. Small enough to fit in a pocket. If the worst happens, I could activate that and (with luck) a LJ would keep me afloat until help arrives.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
I presume you insist that your family wear dry suits with lifejackets (crotch straps and face masks, of course) at all times?
ninky
Well-Known Member
ninky
Well-Known Member
is there any reason that rather than the current lj design we shouldn't have some sort of inflatable ring that fits around the chest and under the arms> then it wouldn't ride up above your body when inflated. there could be some sort of over the shoulder straps to stop it slipping down.
not exactly but based on this...
http://www.thebabycatalogue.com/images/bigads/Float-Seat.jpg
not exactly but based on this...
http://www.thebabycatalogue.com/images/bigads/Float-Seat.jpg
Last edited:
maybh1
Well-Known Member
so anyone planning on going to sea should stop seeing the barber. (or going bald)
How did I know that some smartie pants would come up with that one
Had she not had long blond hair I presume that someone - possibly my husband, would have had to have gone into the river after her thus risking his safety.
May
xx
fireball
Well-Known Member
Refueler said:
I'm one of them slightly more agile ppl, used to balancing myself and knowing when it is 'safe' to go on deck.
In the cockpit we're pretty much safe all the time so, especially in harbour and around the solent I don't bother with a LJ (my choice) because the chances of me loosing footing & handhold are tiny.
However, if the weather is dodgy and/or we're going further afield (away from the ability to walk shore 2 shore in the solent/poole) then the LJs will go on.
In the tender I must admit I don't (usually) bother as it has built in buoyancy, I'm used to tippy boats and the shore is a max 10 minute swim.
Oh - the boom is to high to wack me over the head in the cockpit, I'm more careful going forward when the wind is aft of the rear qtr (usually head up if close to a dead run) and I don't drink and sail <angel imotion>.
Quite a lot actually ... if you include sea state ...What does weather have to do with whether you use straps or not ?
I'm one of them slightly more agile ppl, used to balancing myself and knowing when it is 'safe' to go on deck.
In the cockpit we're pretty much safe all the time so, especially in harbour and around the solent I don't bother with a LJ (my choice) because the chances of me loosing footing & handhold are tiny.
However, if the weather is dodgy and/or we're going further afield (away from the ability to walk shore 2 shore in the solent/poole) then the LJs will go on.
In the tender I must admit I don't (usually) bother as it has built in buoyancy, I'm used to tippy boats and the shore is a max 10 minute swim.
Oh - the boom is to high to wack me over the head in the cockpit, I'm more careful going forward when the wind is aft of the rear qtr (usually head up if close to a dead run) and I don't drink and sail <angel imotion>.
estarzinger
Well-Known Member
A bit of a two part rant on yachting safety equipment –
Part 1: the design and construction quality is scandalous. Quite a bit of it simply will not do the job we expect of it - Man over board poles that sink, radar reflectors that don’t reflect much, and life jackets that does seem to save lives. Even at the top end, I think of the Spinlock lifejackets/harnesses that were selling for +£500 and they convinced a couple Volvo crews to wear them and the crews hated them (uncomfortable) and ended up making their own lightweight spectra harnesses. If as a post above suggests, life jackets don’t really save lives without crotch straps and spray hoods why are they sold without them? The whole yachting safety market is just full of so much ****.
Part 2: This fear based selling can be applied endlessly. Where do you draw the line? If you are over 50, should you have a defibrillator and oxygen bottle on board, because you are more likely to die of a heart attack than drowning? And what about the helmet, perhaps on board, but certainly when you drive your car – after all, all race car drivers wear them and head injuries are the major source of death in car accidents. The plain fact is that the number of man-over-board drowning from sailboats is so small (9 total drowning in all the USA in 2006 from sailboats) as to be statistically insignificant – much less than being struck by lightning. You take many greater risks in your life and could take many other actions that would have far more real effect on your safety than a life jacket.
I find the whole yachting safety discussion to be so un-fact based and so emotional and illogical. I find the safety equipment certification bureau’s and the coastguards and the ISAF/OCR to be un-informed and lazy and just accepting of the industry fear marketing and not focused on either what will actually make a significant difference in our safety nor the scandalous nature of the equipment they are requiring us to buy. I do find it telling that the experienced seamen (the pro offshore sailors and the circumnavigators) actual practices are quite different than the coast guards and ISAF and marketing would want you to think or believe.
End of rant.
Everyone can and should think about this and find his/her own way and decision.
Part 1: the design and construction quality is scandalous. Quite a bit of it simply will not do the job we expect of it - Man over board poles that sink, radar reflectors that don’t reflect much, and life jackets that does seem to save lives. Even at the top end, I think of the Spinlock lifejackets/harnesses that were selling for +£500 and they convinced a couple Volvo crews to wear them and the crews hated them (uncomfortable) and ended up making their own lightweight spectra harnesses. If as a post above suggests, life jackets don’t really save lives without crotch straps and spray hoods why are they sold without them? The whole yachting safety market is just full of so much ****.
Part 2: This fear based selling can be applied endlessly. Where do you draw the line? If you are over 50, should you have a defibrillator and oxygen bottle on board, because you are more likely to die of a heart attack than drowning? And what about the helmet, perhaps on board, but certainly when you drive your car – after all, all race car drivers wear them and head injuries are the major source of death in car accidents. The plain fact is that the number of man-over-board drowning from sailboats is so small (9 total drowning in all the USA in 2006 from sailboats) as to be statistically insignificant – much less than being struck by lightning. You take many greater risks in your life and could take many other actions that would have far more real effect on your safety than a life jacket.
I find the whole yachting safety discussion to be so un-fact based and so emotional and illogical. I find the safety equipment certification bureau’s and the coastguards and the ISAF/OCR to be un-informed and lazy and just accepting of the industry fear marketing and not focused on either what will actually make a significant difference in our safety nor the scandalous nature of the equipment they are requiring us to buy. I do find it telling that the experienced seamen (the pro offshore sailors and the circumnavigators) actual practices are quite different than the coast guards and ISAF and marketing would want you to think or believe.
End of rant.
Everyone can and should think about this and find his/her own way and decision.