Crutch straps

[bilbobaggins]

Right! We all know that lifejackets, in event of need, without fitted crutch straps are close to useless. Er, rather, all of us who've ever done a Sea Survival course and/or tried to do a lo-o-o-ng press-up on an inflated LSJ without such straps.....

So, how many of us STILL haven't got around to fitting 'em and - more important - haven't bothered to fit 'em to the SWMBO's lifejacket ....and the kids'!

A prize for the lamest excuse.....

 

[Dipper]

Partly as a result of people such as you reporting on the sea survival course, I HAVE fitted crutch straps to my lifejackets.

And after reading the report into the Ouzo tragedy, I have fitted sprayhoods to the jackets and bought a two piece survival suit.

Now all I need to do is go sailing!

 

[tcm]

Crutch/crotch straps

hm, did they call them crutch straps on your course?

I resist the airy notion that LJ's without these straps are "useless" but when fitted with them, well, everything will be just peachy. Altho i've now gottem.

 

[bbg]

I wouldn't say that any LJ without straps is useless. What I would say is that the LJ that I used for my sea survival course was uncomfortable without them. At times I was beginning to feel anxious as the LJ rode up. Once, during an entry to the liferaft, the LJ even slipped over my head. OTOH, not everyone without crotch straps had the same problems I did. It very much seemed to depend on the brand of LJ. Having said that, I also believe that, without a LJ (even the poor one that I had) I would have drowned within minutes.

To answer the OP. I fitted crotch straps to my brand new Spinlock Deckvest last night (before reading your post). I'm looking forward to seeing how comfortable it is to wear next weekend.

 

[shmoo]

Yup - when we last replaced our LJs the admiral insisted on crotch straps and we use them. I wear LJ most of the time on the water since I fall in quite a bit (three times in last six years). I wouldn't say that a well-filling LJ without crotch straps is anywhere near useless though.

From about when the clocks go back the LJ goes on as I leave the car on the dockside. One of the times I fell in was in a marina and I have a morbid fear of slipping off a pontoon into a tidal marina in the gloom and ending up in Belgium.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Been wearing them for years.

But then, I'm a smug git.

 

[Refueler]

Right! We all know that lifejackets, in event of need, without fitted crutch straps are close to useless. Er, rather, all of us who've ever done a Sea Survival course and/or tried to do a lo-o-o-ng press-up on an inflated LSJ without such straps.....

So, how many of us STILL haven't got around to fitting 'em and - more important - haven't bothered to fit 'em to the SWMBO's lifejacket ....and the kids'!

A prize for the lamest excuse.....

Crutch straps are not essential but due to most people putting on a LJ to 'comfortable' status - they become important. I don't know if your Survival Course did it - but when I did my commercial ... the instructors tested to see how well we put them on and they do NOT have Crutch straps. Most were too loose, comfortable but loose.

There is also the design of the straps that is important. I use inflatable LJ's and the straps as optional extra are rubbish. So a change to fitting was done and now they are much better.

The makers design was a loop around top of leg with single fitting to side of LJ waist band each leg. This meant that when you sat down the loop would slip down leg thigh ... when you stood up you had to work the loop back up leg to allow you to move freely.

So I changed it so that strap was mounted on rear of waist band with it then coming under crutch and up to front to clip on front of waist band. This meant that you could have both straps fitted and move, go for pee, whatever without hassle ...

Far better ... why manufacturer ever came up with the daft single fix point idea ??

 

[PetiteFleur]

After the Ouzo incident I fitted all by LJ's with crutch straps, and like refueler they are all of the single strap design with a clip at the front. The only mod I did was to make the loop that fixed to the front with the clip a snug fit on the webbing so it didn't slip off.
Always insist they are used, particularly with children. Fortunately never used in anger but do warn any children new to these auto lifejackets that if you do fall in they go off with a BANG! and you float on your back.

 

[Elessar]

Right! We all know that lifejackets, in event of need, without fitted crutch straps are close to useless.

Don't agree.
I have 16 lifejackets on board. All serviced etc.
Usually, no crotch ones sit with the horseshoe, just under the windscreen. Quick and easy to put on.
Crotch strap ones are chosen if circumstances dictate that LJs are worn and not on standby. But they take longer to put on. (do remember I don't have a boom and don't usually need to access the foredeck at sea, so it is different in that respect to a sailing boat)

And I did a sea survival just yesterday. I took a crotch strap and no crotch strap LJ with me.

I found the no crotch strap was certainly not useless, and much better than a crotch strap one that isn't on.

I found if it did ride up (I loosened it to see) I could lay on my back, pull it down and tighten it up.

If you're not as fat as me the crotch strap may be essential.

So I'd say rather than saying crotch straps are essential, I'd say jump in the sea with your lifejacket on or better still do a sea survival in your own lifejacket. Then you can decide for yourself.

 

[Elessar]

From about when the clocks go back the LJ goes on as I leave the car on the dockside. One of the times I fell in was in a marina and I have a morbid fear of slipping off a pontoon into a tidal marina in the gloom and ending up in Belgium.

Now that is talking sense.
If always your wear the lifejacket from the car and take it off when you go out sailing, you'd be safer than the new born lifejacket preaching brigade that only put them on when they get to the boat!

 

[Poignard]

I think they are necessary for those whose waist measurement is not much less than their chest measurement!

One thing I have found is that if you have them you should always fasten them up. The other day mine got trapped under a cocpit locker lid on which someone else was sitting, I didn't realise this until I leapt up to go on deck for some reason and found I didn't get very far.

 

[ninky]

I think they are necessary for those whose waist measurement is not much less than their chest measurement!

think me an OH are fine - i'm a size ten hourglass and he's broadshouldered and strong in the chest department

that said we do have crotch straps - aren't crutches the thing you use when you break a leg?

also have lights fitted for night sailing. no spray hoods though. we are only sailing inshore waters at the moment though.

i wouldn't worry too much about falling in the water off a pontoon. apart from the embarrassment it's not a high risk situation (other than if it's between the pontoon and a boat coming in to dock) if you can swim. after all you could black out getting out of a hot bath - are you going to wear a lifejacket then too?

 

[awol]

On the other hand I find the crotch strap a bloody nuisance while racing - catches on the tiller, cleats, winches, though quite useful for catching crew falling overboard. If it's tight enough not to snag I can't stand up straight.
It seems about time somebody produced foulies with an integral LJ so there are no straps to catch and wearing it is automatic with anything other than clement weather. If Musto want to trial a set of HPX with integral LJ I'll volunteer!

 

[shmoo]

i wouldn't worry too much about falling in the water off a pontoon.

However:
The US Search and Rescue Task force [at http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm] say:
"Many of the fatal boating accidents occur in the "out-of-season" months when the water is cold. What happens to the body when suddenly plunged into cold water?"...

"Survivors of cold water accidents have reported the breath driven from them on first impact with the water. Should your face be in the water during that first involuntary gasp for breath, it may well be water rather than air. Total disorientation may occur after cold water immersion. Persons have reported 'thrashing helplessly in the water' for thirty seconds or more until they were able to get their bearings."



And bear in mind winter water temperatures on the East Coast:
"During winter periods the waters of the southern North Sea are some of the coldest areas of the UK, however, sea-surface temperatures increase southwards from 5 to 7C in February. This is the result of a current of relatively warmer water extending up from the English Channel and prevents water temperatures from dropping below 5C." [DEPARTMENTAL BRIEF: OUTER THAMES ESTUARY Natural England JULY 2009]

Apologies for lots of quotes but falling off pontoons in the dark in the winter is a real hazard.

 

[ninky]

Apologies for lots of quotes but falling off pontoons in the dark in the winter is a real hazard.

yeah and my point is that you could drown in the bath (much more likely than dying from food poisoning in fact).

if we really all want to scare ourselves about the bizarre ways we COULD die, read this.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-...ts-calculate-odd-ways-to-die-115875-17495916/

how many people actually died after falling off a pontoon in the UK last year?

i'd say lack of sailing / boat handling skills are far more likely to result in death than falling off a pontoon.

you've got to keep risk in perspective. to completely avoid risk of dying when sailing - stay at home.

 

[shmoo]

you've got to keep risk in perspective. to completely avoid risk of dying when sailing - stay at home.

I couldn't agree more and I am certainly not risk averse. Before I took up sailing (and when we lived closer to mountains) I was a solo winter mountaineer. My point is that we should know and control the risks exactly so that we can do more fun things.

If you are going to go, it may as well be doing something wildly exciting rather because of some mundane, predicable and preventable cause.

 

[Siochair]

On the other hand I find the crotch strap a bloody nuisance while racing - catches on the tiller, cleats, winches, though quite useful for catching crew falling overboard. If it's tight enough not to snag I can't stand up straight.
It seems about time somebody produced foulies with an integral LJ so there are no straps to catch and wearing it is automatic with anything other than clement weather. If Musto want to trial a set of HPX with integral LJ I'll volunteer!

Are you looking for something like this?

http://www.mullion.be/products/cata...ts/floatation-jackets-plus-trousers/1MJ9A2ES3

 

[maxi77]

However:
The US Search and Rescue Task force [at http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm] say:
"Many of the fatal boating accidents occur in the "out-of-season" months when the water is cold. What happens to the body when suddenly plunged into cold water?"...

"Survivors of cold water accidents have reported the breath driven from them on first impact with the water. Should your face be in the water during that first involuntary gasp for breath, it may well be water rather than air. Total disorientation may occur after cold water immersion. Persons have reported 'thrashing helplessly in the water' for thirty seconds or more until they were able to get their bearings."



And bear in mind winter water temperatures on the East Coast:
"During winter periods the waters of the southern North Sea are some of the coldest areas of the UK, however, sea-surface temperatures increase southwards from 5 to 7C in February. This is the result of a current of relatively warmer water extending up from the English Channel and prevents water temperatures from dropping below 5C." [DEPARTMENTAL BRIEF: OUTER THAMES ESTUARY Natural England JULY 2009]

Apologies for lots of quotes but falling off pontoons in the dark in the winter is a real hazard.

From personal; experience (I was the one who went after the MOB to get him back to the boat) the shock of hitting cold water unexpectedly can actually make some one almost pass out and certainly be unable to help themselves for the critical first minute or so. I reckon it took me no more than a minute to get to him but by the time I got to him he was completely incapable of doing anything to save himself.

On that basis any lifejacket you are wearing needs to be able to do it's job without any help from you for those crucial first minutes.

 

[Refueler]

...........I found if it did ride up (I loosened it to see) I could lay on my back, pull it down and tighten it up.
...........So I'd say rather than saying crotch straps are essential, I'd say jump in the sea with your lifejacket on or better still do a sea survival in your own lifejacket. Then you can decide for yourself.

If you jump in and LJ rides up sufficiently - IT KILLS ! Fact.

It was found that many people with MN Kapok jackets jumping in even from low heights - the LJ rode up sufficiently to hold persons head under water and they were unable to get LJ back down again to allow them to breath / get head above water.
If anyone thinks they are better of with any other LJ and able to sort this - I hope they are right ... personally I don't want the risk ...

Another highlights the shock factor of going in ... not only does it cause person to shock breath, it also causes you to pull in stomach, arms, legs etc. which makes LJ loose on top of any it is already ... don't believe me ? Think about when you've jumped in for intentional swim ... the OOOOH !! it's cold reaction ... now think of that when it's unexpected and COLDER !

Seriously - Crotch Straps are a good idea.

 

[Adonnante]

Crutch Straps

On that basis any lifejacket you are wearing needs to be able to do it's job without any help from you for those crucial first minutes.[/QUOTE]

Which has to be balanced against being trapped under or in a capsized boat which would make escape and survival problematic.

Peter.