captaingb
Member
Which cruising yacht above 40 ft and currently in production can point at or better than 30 deg to the true wind?
Cruising yacht to windward
- Thread starter captaingb
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Robin
Well-Known Member
That would be a motor yacht then.
We had a 41ft Cruiser Racer (Sun Legende 41) that would point at 28 degs to the APPARENT wind at 7kts optimum, or could be pinched up to 22/23 degs but at 6kts, less actual VMG and not very much at all came past us upwind pointing closer.
flaming
Well-Known Member
Given that TP52s point at about 35 degrees to the true wind, I'm going to stick my neck out and say no cruising boat can point at 30 degrees. I'm not even sure IACC boats (the last America's cup monohulls), can point that high.
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
Why on earth would you want to know this. Cruising yachts and yachties are meant to wait for the weather so they do not have to sail to windward.
D
DogWatch
Guest
A gentleman never sails to windward.
If you insist on being so uncouth may I suggest you post only on the Motor Boat forum
If you insist on being so uncouth may I suggest you post only on the Motor Boat forum
captaingb
Member
2 interesting reply so far ....
flaming
Well-Known Member
I'm going to hazard a guess that you're about to tell us about a wonderful new cruising boat (to which you are, of course, in no way connected) which can indeed sail upwind at less than 30 degrees to the true wind, and has therefore rendered all existing craft totally obselete, and in the process trying to make me look daft.
How close am I?
captaingb
Member
ahahah .... not at all. just trying to find out if such a yacht exist or not so I can have it on my shopping list.
DJE
Well-Known Member
Bosun Higgs
N/A
andymcp
Well-Known Member
Lots of cruising boats can point at 30 degrees to the true wind. It's just that none of them will be going anywhere until you crack off 15 degrees or so.....
pugwash60
Well-Known Member
There used to be a boat in the kyles which could sail straight into the wind, I think it's at the maritime museum at Irvine now. Mind you it had a big windmill instead of a sail.
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
ask a silly question, expect a silly answer.
captaingb
Member
Thanks for your help ... so, close to 40T is probably the best that could be achieved.
Bosun Higgs
N/A
I think thats probably correct though andymcp makes a very valid point - it is possible to sail closer but as implied by the polars, progress drops off very rapidly. and of course the polars are either theoreticals or real data taken useing new high tech sails as in YW tests. what you will get with your average cruising sail after a years use is different again.
way I look at it, a close winded boat always is an advantage. even if you have to crack off 5 degrees to make life comfortable, you are adding that 5 degrees to a smaller number in the first place so you are still sailing closer than you might be in another boat. and if you have to sail to windward when cruising ( it sometimes happens) a close winded boat does ensure the unpleasantness lasts for a shorter time. plus a short thrash to windward in 10 knots true is always good sail tweaking fun.
way I look at it, a close winded boat always is an advantage. even if you have to crack off 5 degrees to make life comfortable, you are adding that 5 degrees to a smaller number in the first place so you are still sailing closer than you might be in another boat. and if you have to sail to windward when cruising ( it sometimes happens) a close winded boat does ensure the unpleasantness lasts for a shorter time. plus a short thrash to windward in 10 knots true is always good sail tweaking fun.
captaingb
Member
I think thats probably correct though andymcp makes a very valid point - it is possible to sail closer but as implied by the polars, progress drops off very rapidly. and of course the polars are either theoreticals or real data taken useing new high tech sails as in YW tests. what you will get with your average cruising sail after a years use is different again.
way I look at it, a close winded boat always is an advantage. even if you have to crack off 5 degrees to make life comfortable, you are adding that 5 degrees to a smaller number in the first place so you are still sailing closer than you might be in another boat. and if you have to sail to windward when cruising ( it sometimes happens) a close winded boat does ensure the unpleasantness lasts for a shorter time. plus a short thrash to windward in 10 knots true is always good sail tweaking fun.
Thanks for your reply. I'm thinking along the same lines in trying to estimate how many more sailing hours versus less engine hours I could achieve with a very close winded yacht.
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
Are you quite sure you don't mean apparent wind, which would then make this a reasonable question ?
andymcp
Well-Known Member
On a more practical note than my last reply, we have found our ability to point varies mostly based on who we're sailing with. If we have the kids on board we'll take the easiest route upwind - a few degrees further off the wind than we might manage at best, less trimming to do, generally easier all round.
If it's mates on the boat they all play their part and the vang, traveller, genoa cars and so on all come into play. The difference is very noticeable upwind, around 10-15 degrees advantage, but then again my boat does respond hugely to good trimming whereas no matter what we tried on a charter Bav, the difference was more like 5 degrees no matter what we tried.
Had a sail on an x-412 recently and was very impressed at how well it could pinch while still keeping speed on.
If it's mates on the boat they all play their part and the vang, traveller, genoa cars and so on all come into play. The difference is very noticeable upwind, around 10-15 degrees advantage, but then again my boat does respond hugely to good trimming whereas no matter what we tried on a charter Bav, the difference was more like 5 degrees no matter what we tried.
Had a sail on an x-412 recently and was very impressed at how well it could pinch while still keeping speed on.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Well Bosun Higg's link showed the A40RC getting around 31 deg True wind angle while doing over 7 knots in 25 knots true.
That gave an apparent wind angle of about 22 degrees.
Such a boat will sail closer to the wind, but much slower. Sailing slower it will also make more leeway of course. But you might make 30 degrees if that was your sole objective.
In less wind, the boat speed brings the apparent wind more forwards, so the best VMG angle gets wider, as the boatspeed does not increase or decrease linearly with windspeed.
The A40RC might not be everyone's idea of a true cruising yacht of course....
That gave an apparent wind angle of about 22 degrees.
Such a boat will sail closer to the wind, but much slower. Sailing slower it will also make more leeway of course. But you might make 30 degrees if that was your sole objective.
In less wind, the boat speed brings the apparent wind more forwards, so the best VMG angle gets wider, as the boatspeed does not increase or decrease linearly with windspeed.
The A40RC might not be everyone's idea of a true cruising yacht of course....
lw395
Well-Known Member
Very good thoughts IMHO.
But I would relax a little over the numbers and look for a boat that is a pleasure to sail close hauled. I'm sure there are better answers now than when I bought my Lightwave, but that was much more pleasant to sail on a beat than to motor.
I've done my quota of miles on Ketches which don't point and get through ridiculous quantities of diesel, I simply do not enjoy sailing these boats except on a broad reach.
If I was looking now, I'd be considering cruiser-racers, looking for something with a high IRC handicap for its size but still respected on the race course. But you have to avoid all the under-ballasted jobs that only work upwind with a rugby team on the rail.
Also I'd be looking for a boat with good equipment such as powerful controls so my wife could actually sheet the main in, unlike some 'cruising' boats with puny winches etc.
