Cruising Chute technique.

[Jon magowan]

I’m sure this will divide opinion but I would be very interested to hear your ideas.

I’ve been playing with my cruising chute for the first time. I’m happy with the theory and it seems to work well, however……

When I’m sail quite deep (>120 degrees to the wind) I get the impression that the mainsail is getting in the way and I would be better off without it. Do people generally get rid of the main at these angles ?

I’ve managed to sail quite effectively up to about 70 degree wind angle. Is this about the limit for a cruising chute ? When is it better to unfurl the geneo instead ?

I have a snuffer system, which obviously works well. However we tried a gybe for the first time yesterday and the snuffer uphaul/down haul line got in a right old tangle. Is there a technique to deal with this line when you gybe and where do you put this line as you cruise along?

Thanks to all.

 

[flaming]

First of all are you referencing true or apparent wind angles?

If true, then I would expect you to be able to get a cruising chute down to about 150 before you started getting issues. You're unlikley to see much benefit compared to a genoa tighter than circa 80 degrees, but this will depend on wind strength,

I would not advise dropping the main, in general you will be faster if you sail the angles and gybe, rather than point downwind. Especially in the sort of winds where you might think a cruising chute was a good idea. And of course if you do encounter any issues being able to deliberately blanket the chute behind the main is a good thing!
If you want to be able to sail a bit deeper you can pole out the tack, which works very well to get a bit more projection, but does rely on having a sturdy enough pole.

Snuffers are the work of the devil, and you have identified one of the issues... Namely that when you gybe the snuffer line is now on the wrong side of the boat and you need to walk it round the forestay before it becomes usable. When I have sailed with snuffers we've cleated the line to a mast cleat, but it was far from satisfactory.

 

[srm]

Just cruising, and not too worried about the last few fractions of a knot boat speed I found the chute was easier to handle without the main in light winds. I used to happily set it on a 42ft sloop single handed without a snuffer. However, this was a fairly flat cut sail so recover was relatively easy by letting the tack fly and hauling back on sheet into main hatch. In stronger winds and with crew we would use it with the main as it could be blanketed and pulled under the boom to recover.

However, a lot depends on the cut of the sail. Fuller sails are more powerful and can be more difficult to recover. I found that using a simple barber hauler, line led from toe rail over the sheet and back to a cleat, to bring the sheet lead forward enabled me to use a full cut chute on to a dead run.

Snuffers are great - until the thing jams at the top and will not pull down over the sail. Then you are faced with a conventional recovery.

 

[MisterBaxter]

I haven't sailed with a cruising chute but can you not goose-wing it by poling out the clew on the opposite side to the main?

 

[Jon magowan]

Tremendous feedback.
Many thanks.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I have sailed goosewinged very successfully downwind. I have a masthead rig with spreaders straight out, not swept aft. Sailing with the main or crushing chute slightly by the lee, while paying attention, is okay for short periods, hence you can get about 5 degrees apparent either side of a dead run without too much steering hassle. I don’t drop the main with a cruising chute sailing dead down wind, and I always use a gybe preventer on the boom, anyway. I cruise, not race, sail in a lot of sounds between islands, so would rather not frequently gybe.

 

[thinwater]

If the wind rises there are several big advantages of having the main up:

• Lowering the chute behind the main is much easier. It is in the wind shadow.
• You can bare off to bleed power in the gusts.
• It will be easier to transition to genoa plus main.

If you are really going deep, try wing-and-wing (goose wing). It is probably just as fast as chute-only and more versatile. It does have a learning curve. If it was too deep for the chute (river) this was always my go-to. Never chute-only.

This also depends on the chute. Some are good at rotating to windward if eased well off. For me, peak VMG downwind was always about 110 degrees apparent (about 140 true). Any deeper, including chute-only, was less VMG.

 

[garymalmgren]

I haven't sailed with a cruising chute but can you not goose-wing it by poling out the clew on the opposite side to the main?

Yes, but you can also goose wing the gennaker and the genoa.
It is easier with the main out of the way.
gary

 

[B27]

It all depends on apparent wind.
In light air, it's easy to get the apparent wind a long way forwards, so the main and chute work together.
In stronger winds, if your desired course is dead down wind, then goosewinging might work better.

A lot depends on how keen you are to sail a particular compass course, vs gybing in or out of the tide or whatever.

Also chutes vary a lot in shape, some are more like a baggy genoa, others are a real spinnaker with a big convex luff shoulder.

Personally, I like to use the asy when it's light and we can use it to keep some power in the rig by heading up.
It's good to have some feeling for how much faster you need to go to compensate for being 10/15/20/25 etc degrees off course.
And if you believe the wind will back or veer over the time of the passage, you can use that.

In stronger winds, a (smaller?) conventional kite can be easier, sailing lower with the apparent well back.

 

[Major Tom]

You will lose a lot of speed with chute only. And main is better for the reasons above. I use the letter box method for lowering, and even single handed, it's very manageable (touch wood), getting a snuffer stuck definitely wouldn't be!

 

[thinwater]

I haven't sailed with a cruising chute but can you not goose-wing it by poling out the clew on the opposite side to the main?

Yes, but you can also goose wing the gennaker and the genoa.
It is easier with the main out of the way.
gary

Yes, but if you then need to change to sailing upwind or a reach the main/genoa rig is handier. Depends on the situation. Also, that takes two poles and most cruisers don't have one. Of course, cats can do this without poles.

AFAIK, the old school reason for twin head sails was the lack of efficient autopilots. For the most part, that reason is gone.

 

[Daydream believer]

Cruising chutes can be cut in a variety of ways. If they have a straight luff they can be st with a fairly tight halyard & sailed on courses more akin to reaching. They are fairly stable & in rolly seas are much easier on the helmsman.
On the other hand one can be cut with a very curved luff. This requres an adjustable tack. One takes a course to get the sail filled then bear away whilst easing the tack and some sheet. The luff will fill & move out to windward allowing the sail to fill as the sail pivots around the front of the boat. Trouble is that the boat can roll & collapse the sail so the tack has to be hardened, the boat changes course to fill the sail again & the process is repeated. This is more of a racing sail & hard work for the helmsman & crew.
I think I have that right. Others may have a different way of working it. After years of struggling, I prefer a spinnaker. This is what I grew up with on cruisers, for racing. My chute now has a half way luff.- Half way between the shed & the garage.
The snuffer can get stuck on the sail as it is thicker half way down. Especially with a bit of rain or mist to dampen the cloth. As flaming says, they are the work of the devil

 

[MisterBaxter]

I had a Freedom with a gunmount spinnaker and that had a really good retrieval system, with a downhaul attached to the centre of the spinnaker, which ran back into a long canvas sock, open at both ends, that was attached to the bases of the stanchions. Release the halyard, haul on the downhaul and the sail disappeared very smoothly and quickly.
On that boat the downhaul and the halyard were one piece of rope, so the sail almost pulled itself into the sock.
I've thought since that the system would work well on more conventional boats.

 

[johnalison]

I’ve not owned a cruising chute either, but I have sailed on people’s boats with them. There are obviously many different types, but the majority seem to act like a large light jib. As such, they are easy to deploy but have a limited range of usefulness, unlike a spinnaker which some people regard as a nightmare but with a coverage of some 180 degrees. Personally, I think a spinnaker is worth the effort, but can see the attraction of a chute for some crews. One way of making better use of a jib downwind is by running by the lee, allowing the wind to move between the two sails. This worked well on my old Sadler 29 but doesn’t seem to on my current HR 34, when sailing at about 145 app degrees is about optimum.

 

[MikeBz]

Usually easing the tack line a lot and then gently easing the sheet will cause a cruising chute/assymetric kite to roll round to windward of the bow. I learnt this trick racing a Cork 1720, but it worked equally well with the cruising chute we had on our SO32. You do have to be very attentive with the sheet if running deep.

 

[eebygum]

I haven't sailed with a cruising chute but can you not goose-wing it by poling out the clew on the opposite side to the main?

Yes, but you can also goose wing the gennaker and the genoa.
It is easier with the main out of the way.
gary

Cool Technique, must try that one day

 

[Daydream believer]

One technique is to bring the sheet to windward & goosewing the chute. If it has a curved luff it will roll round to the leaward side a little. Then bring the mainsail in a bit so the wind blows off of it into the chute to keep it full. That way you can run dead downwind without it being blanketed by the main,

 

[Daydream believer]

Usually easing the tack line a lot and then gently easing the sheet will cause a cruising chute/assymetric kite to roll round to windward of the bow. I learnt this trick racing a Cork 1720, but it worked equally well with the cruising chute we had on our SO32. You do have to be very attentive with the sheet if running deep.

But you really need a chute with a curved luff to do that properly
As an example the chute in the video #16 has a straight luff & it really only works with the tack held fixed down

 

[Ian_Edwards]

I have two asymmetrical spinnaker, both on torque ropes, using top down furling. This eliminates the problem of recovering the asymmetric. I just furl it, and if necessary it can stay rigged and furled until l have time to take it down.
The asymmetric are set from a short bow sprit, which keeps it clear of the forsail.
In stronger winds, I can furl the asymmetric prior to a gybe, which really simplifies the procedure. In lighter winds I gybe the asymmetric "outside", i.e. easying both the sheets until the sail is ahead of the boat and sterring the boat around the sail, taking care not to let a sheet drop under the bow.
If I need to sail dead down wind I fly the smaller asymmetric goose winged without a pole, and find it quite stable. I use the auto pilot, in wind vain mode, it's better at following the wind shifts than I am.
Without the top down furler, I don't think I'd use the asymmetric sails in anything other than very light winds.
I mainly sail single handed, the big asymmetric is 2,000 square ft, quite full cut, the smaller one is 1,500 square ft, and quite flat. The boat is 46ft, and I'm not far off 80, so it has to be easy to use. I don't remember having a tangle since converting to a top down furler.

 

[Halo]

I have two chutes. One asymmetrical and a smaller one not.
Dead downwind the symmetrical with the main feeding it from one side and with a preventer.
Tacking downwind with the asymmetrical I gybe by sheeting the main in tight furling the snuffer and resetting the chute on the other side. It takes time but as I am usually single handed it is a safe one step at a time process