Cruiser Uno on Volvo Saildrive

[dunedin]

OK so the overseas boatyard did the antifouling on our boat (by mistake ).

They have put on what I believe to be Cruiser Uno, which is fine as what had before. But same paint seems to be on the saildrive. They said this is TriLux but it looks identical to everything around it.

So
1] How can I tell if saildrive is TriLux or Uno?
2]. How much of a problem is it if done with Uno? Is there a corrosion risk for example?
3]. How to remove if I need to?

Thanks all

 

[Lucky Duck]

Cruiser Uno is a copper based antifouling so is should not be used on aluminum on account of the corrosion risk.

It should be relatively easy to tell the difference as Uno is an 'soft' antifoul and tri-lux is 'hard'.

(Wet) sanding back to a non copper based antifoul or primer should be sufficient

 

[Quandary]

My leg is coated with Trilux, (aerosol spray applied) the texture is much smoother and the colour is different. However, the boat one along from me in the yard uses conventional antifouling on the leg and has done for around ten years without any obvious ill effects, (on our Finngulf the leg was never painted but we applied lanolin wax to it every couple of years, but if it had been painted I would not have worried). On the basis of that experience my opinion is that the VP legs are well enough painted in the factory to isolate them from most hazards, though I suppose there may be a risk if physcical damage breaks the factory coating. Abrading or stripping the new coating off might risk more damage than leaving it alone.

 

[dom]

Cruiser Uno is a copper based antifouling so is should not be used on aluminum on account of the corrosion risk.

(Wet) sanding back to a non copper based antifoul or primer should be sufficient

Just as a matter of interest, is that what the manufacturer recommends?

As a non-metallurgist it seems kind of odd to me that copper held in suspension like that could cause a an electrolytic problem, but more than happy to be corrected.

 

[Neeves]

For what it is worth - I know of an aluminium yacht that was well 'primed' with a decent barrier coat, epoxy, and has had Coppecoat applied - without any untoward effects. I believe Coppercoat has also been applied to aluminium saildrives suitably primed with epoxy.

Jotun ran some trials with copper based AF on epoxy coated saildrives - with no ill effect.

Now whether the copper based AF (including CC) are actually any good on saildrives and which AF is better, or best, including Uno or Trilux, on saildrives is another issue. But as Dom says - the copper is commonly (not copper anyway in AF) and is held isolated by the varnish or resin system (and then an epoxy barrier coat).

The armchair experts will tell you this is all rubbish but then they have not actually tried it - they just like to be seen as 'experts' - I'd suggest get in touch with AMC aka Coppercoat and ask them for their comments

But when we next do our AF we will be contacting AMC as we have not found anything yet to give us a 2 year life (which is what we are getting from our AF), we have tried Trilux and Velox and they give, maybe 6 months, and we are suitably intrigued with CC to think it definitely merits investigation.

Jonathan

 

[dunedin]

The only thing I can find in the Volvo D2-55 user manual is to paint “with Volvo Penta primer and paint”, which doesn’t help much.
Definitely would not have put on myself - but in a quandary as, like Quandary says, sanding off the Uno may cause more trouble by going too deep. No pressure wash option where I am. But really don’t want to have corrosion - and cold waters do not encourage checking mid season by swimming (it ain’t the Med here)

 

[RichardS]

The active copper compound used in Trilux 33 (Cuprous Thiocyanante from memory) is probably similar to that used in Cruiser Uno. You could always ask them.

Many antifouls are probably copper compounds but not, like Coppercoat, pure copper ..... although that can also be used on aluminium provided it is primed correctly.

Richard

 

[Lucky Duck]

Just as a matter of interest, is that what the manufacturer recommends?

As a non-metallurgist it seems kind of odd to me that copper held in suspension like that could cause a an electrolytic problem, but more than happy to be corrected.

Not suitable for use over Aluminium/Alloy substrates or zinc sprayed surfaces

http://www.yachtpaint.com/MPYACMDatasheets/Cruiser_UNO+eng+A4+Y+20141215.pdf

For a long as I care to remember I have used the aerosol sprayed stuff on my sail drive.

 

[VicS]

Copper(I) oxide is the active ingredient in most antifouling paints , not metallic copper and copper(I) thiocyanate is the active ingredient in Trilux33. Trilux is not, therefore, copper free

Copper(I) thiocyanate is sometimes used in other white antifouling paints IIRC Presumably because it is itself off- white in colour.

 

[dunedin]

http://www.yachtpaint.com/MPYACMDatasheets/Cruiser_UNO+eng+A4+Y+20141215.pdf

For a long as I care to remember I have used the aerosol sprayed stuff on my sail drive.

Mmmm. Just test painted a patch of TriLux on top. Definitely not TriLux.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Copper(I) oxide is the active ingredient in most antifouling paints , not metallic copper and copper(I) thiocyanate is the active ingredient in Trilux33. Trilux is not, therefore, copper free

Copper(I) thiocyanate is sometimes used in other white antifouling paints IIRC Presumably because it is itself off- white in colour.

International make a bold claim regarding its use on aluminum though;

Specially formulated to be the safest and most effective product for use on aluminum boats, outdrives and outboards

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

OK so the overseas boatyard did the antifouling on our boat (by mistake ).

They have put on what I believe to be Cruiser Uno, which is fine as what had before. But same paint seems to be on the saildrive. They said this is TriLux but it looks identical to everything around it.

So
1] How can I tell if saildrive is TriLux or Uno?
2]. How much of a problem is it if done with Uno? Is there a corrosion risk for example?
3]. How to remove if I need to?

Thanks all

1]. Spray it with a hose and keep it wet for an hour or two, then scrub a small area with a nylon washing up scourer. If it is an eroding A/F like Uno it rub will off fairly easily onto the scourer, leaving obvious traces, whereas Trilux will not be affected by this treatment.
2]. The jury appears to be out, on this one, but personally I would make the effort to have the Trilux or Volvo paint on it.
3]. Wet sanding with Wetordry sandpaper. Perhaps a medium grade at first then go down to a finer one. Scotchbrite pads might also be useful here. I would just get the Uno down to a point where the previous A/F is beginning to show through, then give it two or three coats of Trilux Primer, followed by a similar number of coats of the finish.

 

[duncan99210]

In 2011 Jotun published a policy document stating that copper containing antifoul was OK to use on aluminium. They caveat the basic principle with a warning about galvanic corrosion caused by different metals in an aluminium hull but that is a separate issue from the use copper containing paints. Document is here https://www.smlmarinepaints.co.uk/files/library/files/aluminium_antifouling.pdf .

There's also paper from Strathclyde University here https://strathprints.strath.ac.uk/59417/ which I haven't read in detail but the abstract is clear that there is no problems using copper based paints on aluminium.

OK, both refer to hulls rather than saildrives but I can't see the difference between a hull and saildrive in this instance. I'd always thought that the reason for not using conventional antifoul on saildrives is the problems with getting it to adhere properly, hence the use of Trilux and primer rather than any corrosion problems with the copper.

 

[Tranona]

But when we next do our AF we will be contacting AMC as we have not found anything yet to give us a 2 year life (which is what we are getting from our AF), we have tried Trilux and Velox and they give, maybe 6 months, and we are suitably intrigued with CC to think it definitely merits investigation.

Jonathan

Definite no-no for Coppercoat on a saildrive. Asked the same question when I had my boat done and Ewan (CC boss) was adamant that it should not be used, partly because to get adequate film thickness the size of the water intake holes will be reduced (his words). So like most others I use Trilux (or now the cheaper Hempel equivalent).

 

[VicS]

Definite no-no for Coppercoat on a saildrive. Asked the same question when I had my boat done and Ewan (CC boss) was adamant that it should not be used, partly because to get adequate film thickness the size of the water intake holes will be reduced (his words). So like most others I use Trilux (or now the cheaper Hempel equivalent).

Could always fit a conventional water inlet seacock .

 

[PabloPicasso]

I had Volvo sail drive painted with cruiser undo and the anodes did not last. Scrape off, or at least prime over it and spray with trilux

 

[VicS]

In 2011 Jotun published a policy document stating that copper containing antifoul was OK to use on aluminium. They caveat the basic principle with a warning about galvanic corrosion caused by different metals in an aluminium hull but that is a separate issue from the use copper containing paints. Document is here https://www.smlmarinepaints.co.uk/files/library/files/aluminium_antifouling.pdf .

There's also paper from Strathclyde University here https://strathprints.strath.ac.uk/59417/ which I haven't read in detail but the abstract is clear that there is no problems using copper based paints on aluminium.

OK, both refer to hulls rather than saildrives but I can't see the difference between a hull and saildrive in this instance. I'd always thought that the reason for not using conventional antifoul on saildrives is the problems with getting it to adhere properly, hence the use of Trilux and primer rather than any corrosion problems with the copper.

Interesting though that they now say only white Mare Nostrum, white Racing Antifouling . and white or grey Non-stop Antifouling are suitable for aluminium hulls. Also that CU-PRO is not suitable for aluminium hulls.

 

[Neeves]

Could always fit a conventional water inlet seacock .

If CC worked - a conventional seacock would be a very sensible answer - considering how easily the water intake holes become blocked.

But ignoring the OP's actual problem, apologies . The question with regard to use of AF, including CC, is whether they offer any improvement over Trilux. If they are effective then their is room for a real debate, if they are no better (for whatever reason) - then there is no debate, or not much, and use Trilux (or its equivalent). I have tried Velox and it might be a bit better - but its a very expensive option. Soft AF might not have the resistance to the higher water flow - leaving......Trilux......which is why CC is (or was,' Post 14) interesting.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

Definite no-no for Coppercoat on a saildrive. Asked the same question when I had my boat done and Ewan (CC boss) was adamant that it should not be used, partly because to get adequate film thickness the size of the water intake holes will be reduced (his words). So like most others I use Trilux (or now the cheaper Hempel equivalent).

I checked on this

There is no suggestion the CC in any way impacts corrosion.

I quote:

It’s as fine as ever to use Coppercoat on an aluminium boat, providing the metal has been appropriately primed with a relevant epoxy priming system.

But we not recommend this system be applied to sail-drives. Partly, as you say, because the epoxy can restrict/block the channels, and partly because it will generally glue it up, which isn’t ideal for an item that occasionally needs to come apart for servicing.

If painting a sail-drive with conventional paint (anti-foul) it is best to use a copper-free system such as International Trilux Prop-O-Drev or similar. This has always been the case.

end quote

We have had our Saildrives in use for 20 years now - and never taken them apart and it is not uncommon here to introduce a new hull fitting for water intake and bypass the quickly blocked orifices of the Saildrive.

Jonathan

Sorry to have introduced a bit of drift.

 

[Tranona]

Replacing the drive shaft seals is common and this means removing the end cap which is not easy to get off anyway. Also one would have to exclude the drain plug from coating for obvious reasons.

I am a bit sceptical of the explanation but as I find Trilux works OK does not really bother me.