Cruise planning help - England, France,Netherlands

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gregor40

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Dear Fellow Sailors!

Let me introduce myself first.
I am 23 and come from Poland, from its historical capitol - Cracow.

The comming summer I will attend a three-week cruise from StMalo to Gdynia(Poland). It will be the last part of a bigger adventure. The whole event will be a three month cruise from Gdyna to Bergen, then Iceland, Scotland, StMalo and end again in Gdynia(if winds will allow).

As I mentioned, i will attend the last part - from StMalo.
We will sail on Copernicus - a 14 m, two mast ship.
The crew will be 9 souls, with me as the first mate.

If you wish, you can see a photo here:

http://www.ykstal.org.pl/doc/copernicus.html

As a first mate I am responsible for route planning. So, now time for questions:

1)To calculate the costs of the cruise we need an information regarding the cos of fuel (oil). As far as I know, in many coutries diesel fuel for boats is cheper then the one for cars. Do you perhaps know the actual prices of Diesel fuel in England, France, Netherlands and Germany?

2)We plan to visit following places
a)StMalo
b)Sait Helier
c)Cowes
d)Portsmouth
e)LeHavre
f)Dover
g)Calais
h)Dunkirque
i)Amsterdam
j)Bremerhaven
k)Helgoland
l)Cuxhaven

-Do you know that ports? Can you perhaps recomend a good and cheap marina(we need at least 2,8m of depth)?
-Perhaps there are more interesting places that the one mentioned?
-Perhaps some of these places are not interesting at all?

(A small commercial, sorry for that) Maybe you are a journalist, interested in writting an interesting story about merry Polish sailors and their adventure? Our cruise is not totally private, you know. We plan to get a sponsorship from our city (as a promotion of Cracow), we will probably have support from the president of Cracow and are currently dicussing sponsorship from such companies as Krakow City Airport etc. We are strongly interested in getting in touch with local (or sailor) media in countries we visit.

I will gladly apreciate any help and I will be glad to assist you, if you will be planing a cruise to the beautiful Baltic sea.

Sincerely,

Michal "Zmazi"
gregor40@poczta.wp.pl
 
Czesc Michal!

As I also live in Krakow, and have sailed to quite a few of the places you mentioned, maybe you want to meet for a coffee, and I can describe some of them in more detail!

About the ports you mention, most of them are big industrial ports, which have good facilities, but not all of them are the prettiest places to stay:

1) St Malo - dunno
2) St Helier - dunno
3) Cowes - historic sailing centre which is very well worth a visit, but don't expect it to be cheap to berth a yacht there! Expect to pay around 4x what you pay in Netherlands Germany etc for mooring fees. A cheaper way is to anchor in say Newton River (I think you can get in with 2.8m, but check) and use foot and bus. Unfortunately you will have to pay even to use your anchor, and will be aground at low water, but... at least it's pretty!
4) Portsmouth - not very pretty, but interesting historically and well worth a visit. Again, it won't be cheap. There's an interesting submarine museum in Gosport (an island in Portsmouth harbour that has a couple of marinas) worth a visit.
Also consider dropping in to Lymington, which is very interesting, and deep enough for you, but like everywhere south coast UK, very very expensive.
5) Le Havre - again a big city commercial port - not particularly pretty, and the town was mostly flattened, but it's pleasant enough.
6) Dover - another big port, and there's little to do in the town except there is a castle. The white cliffs look nice, but mainly for sailing past. Ramsgate around the corner is, in my opinion, slightly more interesting.
7) Calais - dunno, except by reputation it's another not very pretty town.
8) Dunkerque - another big port. I haven't explored the town, but the harbour is big commercial and dreary. Ostend further along the coast is MUCH nicer (and on a straight train line to Ghent and Bruges and Brussels). I guess the harbour's deep enough, but you should check.
9) Amsterdam - IJmuiden which is the seaport is horrible, but Amsterdam itself is, as I'm sure you known, very pretty indeed. I'm not sure that you'll get through the IJselmeer to the North with your draft, you may have to exit back through IJmuiden again?
10) Bremerhaven - dunno, but would suggest looking at Borkum instead. Borkum's lovely - you won't get into the small yacht harbour but will fit happily in the huge old military harbour just next to it, which is also rigged out as a sort of marina.
11) Helgoland - yes definitely visit, it's great! Really wierd and interesting place.
12) Cuxhaven - it's not very interesting, but is just a useful stopping place before entering the Kiel Canal.

Good luck!

Simon
 
Re: Czesc Michal!

Diesel fuel is £0.45/litre in St Peter Port, Guernsey (the next biggest island after Jersey, where St Helier is). Both islands are a convenient day's sail from St Malo. You can anchor, without charge, in the very sheltered and pretty Havelet Bay just over the wall from St Peter Port Harbour & Marinas. Only a south-east gale is bad in the bay.
 
Re: Czesc Michal!

St. Malo is very pretty with a large walled town to visit and also a commercial port so you will have no difficulty buying diesel or berthing although it gets very busy during the summer.
 
a)StMalo - YES. You can book ahead if possible send a fax to the marina through the lock
b)Sait Helier - No - I would go the St Peter Port instead, on Guernsey which is prettier. St Helier is also quite along walk from the marina.
c)Cowes - No - I would go to Yarmouth instead, also on the Isle of Wight.
d)Portsmouth - No - I would go to Lymington if possible.
e)LeHavre - No i would go to Deauville, much prettier town or even prettier is Honfleur along the coast - you can stay on the outside pontoon of maybe go in through the lock.
f)Dover - Maybe i would go to Ramsgate instead, but this is further north. So Dover is ok.

Others i don't know alternatives
 
Lymington is fab, but be aware that you won't be able to lie alongside the town quay which has a 12m max rule. The marinas in the river at Yachthaven and The Berthon usually have room but they will be about 60 euro a night for a boat of your size.

For a cheaper anchoring alternative you could try Hurst Road on port as you arrive in the Western Solent or off Newton Creek which is on the starboard side about 5 miles into the Solent. Both of these places need a tender to get to shore but are generally quiet and of course no charge.
 
Agree Boulogne instead of Calais... altogether a nicer place.. plus plenty to see and do ashore.... Calais is a bit of a dump IMHO.....and has a 'pain in the backside' lifting road bridge....

Also, would agree that Yarmouth is prettier than Cowes.... but Cowes is a 'must visit' for any first time visitor to UK sailing surely?
 
Agree Boulogne instead of Calais but Calais does offer excellent shelter once inside the marina. Waiting for the bridge to open can be a pain as it's tide dependant. Marina facilities are excellent and price is reasonable (or was last year)

Boulogne is the prettier of the two though.

Good luck and good cruising.
 
1)To calculate the costs of the cruise we need an information regarding the cos of fuel (oil). As far as I know, in many coutries diesel fuel for boats is cheper then the one for cars. Do you perhaps know the actual prices of Diesel fuel in England, France, Netherlands and Germany?

England is about .41p /litre, Belgium about the same, others expensive as no special rate. I think France is cheaper than Holland

2)We plan to visit following places
a)StMalo
Very nice in inner Marina accesible through large lock. Will need long lines ready for line handlers. However, many seem to have none as they have no intention of doing any work and hang off others!

b)Sait Helier
St Helier not actually too far from Town but there is not a lot there. Need to use the buses which are more expensive than Guernsey. I prefer St Peter Port, you will not be able to enter at very low water, I ran aground with 1.9m at low water springs. To get around Island get a Multi Journet Card which you can share! Mine is in my wallet for when I return next.

c)Cowes
A must I suppose but expensive. The new Shephards Wharf Marina in West Cowes just past the main marina is cheaper. Fuel is up river just past the chain ferry. Yarnouth is good as it is a main bus centre. Also take the dinghy up river on a rising tide.

d)Portsmouth
Another must I suppose! Expensive. Go on the Gosport side (which is not an island) and take the ferry across. With special permission you might be able to stay at Gunwharf Quay?

e)LeHavre
A definite dump! Fecamp? Honfleur is lovely and you can go in the inner basin but watch lock and bridge times. Also make sure you get the tide right as the Seine empties out at a rate.

f)Dover
Very friendly and helpful staff. Take the tour bus round. Diesel is easy and cheapish.

g)Calais
Another dump! Hang on a bouy until the bridge opens. Superb but expensive restaurant nearby. Very friendly in the yacht club.

h)Dunkirque
Not too bad. I usually stop at the Yacht Club as can walk into town but new marinas now through a lock. Go to their website. Dont stop at the first marina as the pilot boats will keep you awake all night.

i)Amsterdam
Never been there

j)Bremerhaven
Never been there

k)Helgoland
Never been there

l)Cuxhaven
Nver been there

Consider Breskens and/or Vlissingen. If Vlissingen I would not take your boat into the Marina accessible from the sea. If you have the time, which I think not, you could go up the canal to Middleburg. Good chandler and fuel there.
 
Thank You for your answers!

Also those which came to my e-mail.

I am realy, realy gatefull for your answers.
The fuel prices help much now, and the navigation information you provide is priceless. pleas, cotinue.

Simon, I don't know if you know "Stary Port"? Perhaps we could arrange a meeting there one day, if you have some time?

Anyway, if anyone will be in Cracow, be sure to visit "Stary Port" (Ye Old Port in Polish) - a lovely tavern, located at the corner of Jablonowskich str. and Straszewskiego str. (the strict city center). It is beautifully aranged inside, and each friday and saturday are concerts of jazz, blues and, above all, shants.

You are welcome!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Simon, I don't know if you know "Stary Port"? Perhaps we could arrange a meeting there one day, if you have some time?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sent you a pm

.
 
Ramsgate is more interesting than Dover - but Dover might be more practical for your route. If so: don't go in the Eastern entrance because its very busy with ferries; continue to the western entrance. The harbour board are used to lots of ship movements and the marina is much like other marinas. The Granville dock has a gate - see almanac for opening times.
Avoid Calais and go for Boulogne.
Good luck to you merry Polish sailors!
 
Thank you Spuddy! We have a lot of planning work in front of us /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif All help is really apreciated. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
With 2.8m min reqd depth, I wouldn't suggest the IJsselmeer (NL) as this CAN (not def will) cause problems.
Acc. map a lot of spots are approx 3m and due to wind this can decrease or increase.

Beside IJmuiden, maybe Scheveningen or Den Helder or one of the Wadden Islands might be a better idea.

Diesel fuel in NL is approx. 1.10-1.15 at the moment, depending on location. Average is Road price + 5-10%.

Cheapest diesel can be found in Belgium, as far as I know the only EU country where RED diesel is stille allowed for pleasure craft
 
First of all I would like to thank SimonCR, who spent a few hours with us, helping us much with the planning work. It is SO good to know that there are so helpfull people out there....

I would likealso to thank all of you for posting in this topic.

Regarding fuel prices:

As i understood the cheapest diesel is in Great Britan (45p) and in Belgium (?). Is it correct?
 
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