Croatia vignette increases for 2018 (?)

[sailaboutvic]

Just had an email back , his comment was ,their crazy but it right what we reading.

Well that will put me off going back , hopefully that will lost crusers and review their charges .

 

[crisjones]

It seems they really have gone crazy and are charging yachts much more than other "accomodation places"
As far as I can see the Government have increased the "standard" Sojourn Tax that is paid per person per night for staying in hotels, villas, campsites etc by only 1kuna per night and then only for the high season period. This means the maximum sojourn tax paid per person per night in Class A cities is 8kn (Just over €1.00). Outside Class A cities and outside high season the rates are less. The link in the OP actually gives all the various rates. So for 2 people visiting for 2 weeks you would pay about €28 in Sojourn tax in high season in A class cities, out of season and lower class cities you would pay a good bit less!!

If the same 2 people charter a 10m yacht for 2 weeks the Sojourn Tax is a huge €96 regardless of season or place!!! Even if you have 4 people on board it is still almost double the hotel rate. Four people on a 10m yacht is about right, OK the band is up to 12m and you can get 6 or 8 people on a 12m. Also some of the charter group may well be children, in hotels under 12's do not pay and 12-18 years pay 50% yet there is no reflection of this in yacht sojourn tax rates.

Obviously they have based the yacht rate on the "potential number of berths" and come up with a crazy figure. If they are going to do that to yachts then they should do the same to hotels - if any rooms are occupied then the Sojourn Tax becomes calculated on the number of beds in the hotel NOT the number of people!!!

Why do they not do the same as hotels and get the Charter Company to charge and account for the Tax based on the number of people on a yacht and the number of days. Obviously visitors in their own boats would have to declare and pay for the appropriate number of nights. Not too difficult to implement and then at least all visitors to Croatia pay the same fee per person per night. The rates for 2018 mean that yachties are generally going to be paying much more, especially couples on their own boats.
I would hope that the Charter Companies are making strong complaints about the unfairness of the new rates.

Although Richard mentions there is little checking by the authorities on yachts but that could well change with the new rates. Also avoiding the tax is difficult since your passport is electronically scanned on entry and exit so they can easily determine how many days you have been in the country if they need to.

It is certainly not going to encourage cruisers to visit Croatia, they have clearly decided to screw yachties for every last penny with this charging system.

 

[BrianH]

Obviously they have based the yacht rate on the "potential number of berths" and come up with a crazy figure. If they are going to do that to yachts then they should do the same to hotels - if any rooms are occupied then the Sojourn Tax becomes calculated on the number of beds in the hotel NOT the number of people!!!

Why do they not do the same as hotels and get the Charter Company to charge and account for the Tax based on the number of people on a yacht and the number of days. Obviously visitors in their own boats would have to declare and pay for the appropriate number of nights. Not too difficult to implement and then at least all visitors to Croatia pay the same fee per person per night. The rates for 2018 mean that yachties are generally going to be paying much more, especially couples on their own boats.
I would hope that the Charter Companies are making strong complaints about the unfairness of the new rates.

Although Richard mentions there is little checking by the authorities on yachts but that could well change with the new rates. Also avoiding the tax is difficult since your passport is electronically scanned on entry and exit so they can easily determine how many days you have been in the country if they need to.

Your example of a couple on a 10m yacht is pertinent but much worse for a single-hander as I usually am. Especially as my yacht is 9.4m with the band quite granular at 9m - 12m. In my 35 years of cruising, first Yugoslavia then, after a 4 year break for the civil war, Croatia, I have met and made lasting friendships with other such weird types that cruise alone - we are not too small a group. This principle was always unfair to us.

As we must submit a crew-list, with passports, when clearing in at the first port of entry - and update them if joined while in Croatian waters - there exists the perfect mechanism to apply this tax on the basis of its original intention - per person per night of stay.

What Richard mentions is the difficulty to monitor those who keep their yachts permanently in Croatia and who arrive regularly overland (or air) without the need to formally declare in and out as we do on our own keels ... when we are very rigorously controlled.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Translated from yachtline ,
Completely surprising, the Croatian authorities have decided on an extreme course change for the stay fee, as Croatia expert Karl-Heinz Permanente, author of the district manager "888 ports and bays" of the YACHT reported:

"The Ministry of Tourism has introduced a draft which will lead to a painful increase in the price of owners and holiday cruises, especially larger boats and longer stays of more than one holiday break will be taxed more heavily, the proposal has been approved by the government and has already been published in the Croatian Law Gazette and thus valid ", the Croatia expert said. It was only rarely that these resolutions, which had been taken once, were still toppled, especially as the outcry of the nautical industry in Croatia had so far been omitted. Obviously, in view of the rising number of visitors, the increase was optimistic.

And the numbers are alarming: an owner of a 9 to 12 meter long boat with year berth in Croatia now pays, instead of just as much as 150 euros (1100 kuna), a whopping 775 euro (5800 kuna). Those who have a 12 to 15 meter long yacht is already at 1040 euros (7700 Kuna). The prices are, as before, graded according to boat lengths and length of stay.

 

[alexsailor]

Here you have a table with increase in percentage...



translation:
dolžina plovila--- boat length
časovno obdobje--- time period
2017 kune--- prices for 2017 in Croatian kunas (currency)
podražitev---increase in %
do 8 dni--- up to 8 days
do 15 dni--- up to 15 days...
etc.

It is crazy but so it is in wild Croatia. It seems Greece will follow with cruising tax and the rates would probably be the same.

Nevertheless the most affected are we who keep the boat year around in Croatian marinas. There is no other way than to pay the tax for a year. Although I did not yet received the answer to this question.

One consequence would be that some boats will for sure move to Slovenia, Italy and Greece. And all three marinas in Preveza were already fully booked in summer for winter time. So if there will be a higher demand...
I am already one of those who are seriously thinking to move the boat to Greece.

But now the only think to do is to put some pressure to our marinas in Croatia.

edited: sorry, now I see the table has been published on the first page.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I am quite a fan of Croatia It has loads going for it , but there no way I be going back there until these charges have been reduces .
And I have a feeling now with the inflex of yacht from Turkey into Greece and what's happening in Croatia , the Greeks will start to change the new cruising Tax .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Here you have a table with increase in percentage...

View attachment 66349

translation:
dolžina plovila--- boat length
časovno obdobje--- time period
2017 kune--- prices for 2017 in Croatian kunas (currency)
podražitev---increase in %
do 8 dni--- up to 8 days
do 15 dni--- up to 15 days...
etc.

It is crazy but so it is in wild Croatia. It seems Greece will follow with cruising tax and the rates would probably be the same.

Nevertheless the most affected are we who keep the boat year around in Croatian marinas. There is no other way than to pay the tax for a year. Although I did not yet received the answer to this question.

One consequence would be that some boats will for sure move to Slovenia, Italy and Greece. And all three marinas in Preveza were already fully booked in summer for winter time. So if there will be a higher demand...
I am already one of those who are seriously thinking to move the boat to Greece.

But now the only think to do is to put some pressure to our marinas in Croatia.

edited: sorry, now I see the table has been published on the first page.

I started to wonder if pressure from Marina or us privately own boats would make any difference.
With the way the charter market is and the amount it grows each year , we are a very small .
What really needs to happen is the charter market to collapse, and there no sign of that .
The same problem with marims and yards in Greece , the reason the yards are full in Preveza is bacause the charter company are n ow using them .
Just one company alone incress their fleet from 10 boats to 46 over one winter , sunsail now moved all their boats to Lefkas which mean it now almost impossible to get a berth in the Marina over the change over period .
And what I find even more annoying is some of these company's have taken over whole quay to run their business from .

 

[RichardS]

Nevertheless the most affected are we who keep the boat year around in Croatian marinas. There is no other way than to pay the tax for a year. Although I did not yet received the answer to this question.

I'm not sure why you say that Alex as you only have to pay when you are on the boat. For the first couple of years we just paid for short period but a couple of years ago decided to pay for the year. The huge increase in the annual charge means that we will go back to paying for each visit.

Richard

 

[alexsailor]

I'm not sure why you say that Alex as you only have to pay when you are on the boat. For the first couple of years we just paid for short period but a couple of years ago decided to pay for the year. The huge increase in the annual charge means that we will go back to paying for each visit.

Richard

Hi Richard,

I am not sure if you are right.
I asked that question Lučka kapetanija (port police) but as said I did not get any reply.

The law says (maybe google will translate it)- here is the link http://narodne-novine.nn.hr/clanci/sluzbeni/2013_07_99_2240.html
that you must pay it when you are in organized marina, anchorage (buoys) etc...
I am not sure that it is only when you are on the boat. But I"ll find that out.

 

[RichardS]

Hi Richard,

I am not sure if you are right.
I asked that question Lučka kapetanija (port police) but as said I did not get any reply.

The law says (maybe google will translate it)- here is the link http://narodne-novine.nn.hr/clanci/sluzbeni/2013_07_99_2240.html
that you must pay it when you are in organized marina, anchorage (buoys) etc...
I am not sure that it is only when you are on the boat. But I"ll find that out.

You certainly have to pay the Vignette annually but we never had any problem with the Captiniere (two different ones over the years) when we used to say that we would be in Croatia for 2 weeks so we'll pay the 15 day Sojourn charge.

Richard

 

[BrianH]

But now the only think to do is to put some pressure to our marinas in Croatia.

Laudable but I suspect insignificant in their representation of individual berth-holders to the overall tourist industry. Only the burgeoning charter business might have some influence but they will absorb the increase without a whimper as their clientele will hardly notice.

Whilst our ire is directed at the Croatian marine ministry for the increase to its clumsy implementation of the sojourn tax, we should not forget that the tourist ministry is the initiator of the law's change.

I believe it is no coincidence that the city of Amsterdam has also just announced an increase to a similar tourist tax. Having passed through that city in August I can well understand why; it was totally saturated with tourists that made any sort of sight-seeing a miserable experience, especially if entry to any of the major museums or art-galleries had been planned.

There does appear to be an international movement to try to curb tourism in general and in cities that are accessible by the ever-larger cruise ships in particular. The horrors of Venice, Barcelona and Amsterdam when those obscenities arrive are well known, Croatia has also such vulnerable jewels with one in particular, Dubrovnik.

Could it be that Croatia is joining this movement in what they see as a far-sighted attempt to preserve their treasures before the world trashes them? I have every sympathy with the graffiti-writer whose lurid effort I observed on a wall in one such location: "Tourist, YOU are the terrorist".


.

 

[crisjones]

Laudable but I suspect insignificant in their representation of individual berth-holders to the overall tourist industry. Only the burgeoning charter industry might have some influence but they will absorb the increase without a whimper as their clientele will hardly notice.

Whilst our ire is directed at the Croatian marine ministry for the clumsy implementation of this imposition to the sojourn tax, we should not forget that the tourist ministry is the law's initiator.

I believe it is no coincidence that the city of Amsterdam has also just announced a radical increase to a similar tourist tax. Having passed through that city in August I can well understand why; it was totally saturated with tourists that made any sort of sight-seeing a miserable experience, especially if entry to any of the major museums or art-galleries had been planned.

There does appear to be an international movement to try to curb tourism in general and in cities that are accessible by the ever-larger cruise ships in particular. The horrors of Venice, Barcelona and Amsterdam when those obscenities arrive are well known, Croatia has also one such jewel, Dubrovnic.

Could it be that Croatia is joining this movement in what they see as a far-sighted attempt to preserve their treasures before the world trashes them? I have every sympathy with the graffiti-writer whose lurid effort I observed on a wall in one such location: "Tourist, YOU are the terrorist".


.

Who knows if the Tourist Ministry are using the Sojourn Tax as a means to limit tourism or as a means to raise as much revenue as possible? I suspect the later.

Regardless of the intention it is still a totally unfair system as regards yachts. As far as I can tell every other section of the Tourist Industry (hotels, villas, campsites etc) has to account for the Sojourn Tax on a per person per night basis, with discounts for less favourable areas, off seasons and children. Only yachts have to pay a lump sum Sojourn Tax based only on vessel length and basically assuming that the vessel is filled to capacity at all times. If hotels et al can account for the tax per person per night then why can the yachting section of the tourist industry not be allowed to do the same? It is hardly a difficult process to administer.

The only section of the industry to be hit with such staggering increases in the Sojourn Tax is yachting with price hikes of up to 753%. The rest of the industry has had a maximum increase of 14% with some tax brackets not being increased at all. It is clear that the Tourism Ministry has decided that yachts are a viable target for maximising tax income and they probably believe this increase will have little or no impact on visitor numbers.
I wonder how the Sojourn Tax is implemented and policed with regards to Croatian owners who keep their own boats in marinas for their own personal useage - they are legally obliged to pay the same rates when they use their boats, but do they actually do so?
People may argue that the yachting tourists have more money and so should pay more but the hotel rate is the same for everyone regardless of wether you have a budget €40 room or a luxury €1000 suite, it seems yachting is being taxed in a totally unfair manner compared to other tourist industries.

 

[crisjones]

Hi Richard,

I am not sure if you are right.
I asked that question Lučka kapetanija (port police) but as said I did not get any reply.

The law says (maybe google will translate it)- here is the link http://narodne-novine.nn.hr/clanci/sluzbeni/2013_07_99_2240.html
that you must pay it when you are in organized marina, anchorage (buoys) etc...
I am not sure that it is only when you are on the boat. But I"ll find that out.

Looking at the Google Translation of the Law you link to it does seem to indicate that you only need to pay if you are on the boat "for rest recreation or cruising" and "For the purpose of this Ordinance, the stay of persons referred to in point 1 of this Article shall be considered as staying in the yachts and yachts in the ports of nautical tourism" (The quotes are excerpts from the Law).

So it does seem that Richard is OK only paying when he is actually on the boat - it seems to be about the only fair thing about the Sojourn Tax relating to boats. What it also means is that if you only spend a weekend on board you have to pay for a minimum of 8 days even if you don't actually go anywhere!!

Do all Croatian owners and foreign owners who drive to their boats for short times pay the Tax as they are supposed to? How is this short term useage policed?

 

[BrianH]

Who knows if the Tourist Ministry are using the Sojourn Tax as a means to limit tourism or as a means to raise as much revenue as possible? I suspect the later.

Regardless of the intention it is still a totally unfair system as regards yachts. As far as I can tell every other section of the Tourist Industry (hotels, villas, campsites etc) has to account for the Sojourn Tax on a per person per night basis, with discounts for less favourable areas, off seasons and children. Only yachts have to pay a lump sum Sojourn Tax based only on vessel length and basically assuming that the vessel is filled to capacity at all times. If hotels et al can account for the tax per person per night then why can the yachting section of the tourist industry not be allowed to do the same? It is hardly a difficult process to administer.

The only section of the industry to be hit with such staggering increases in the Sojourn Tax is yachting with price hikes of up to 753%. The rest of the industry has had a maximum increase of 14% with some tax brackets not being increased at all. It is clear that the Tourism Ministry has decided that yachts are a viable target for maximising tax income and they probably believe this increase will have little or no impact on visitor numbers.
I wonder how the Sojourn Tax is implemented and policed with regards to Croatian owners who keep their own boats in marinas for their own personal useage - they are legally obliged to pay the same rates when they use their boats, but do they actually do so?
People may argue that the yachting tourists have more money and so should pay more but the hotel rate is the same for everyone regardless of wether you have a budget €40 room or a luxury €1000 suite, it seems yachting is being taxed in a totally unfair manner compared to other tourist industries.

Your points are irrefutable and I agree that the old Yugoslavian command economy mentality, when foreign currency was critical to the survival of the state, is alive and well. It seems that old-fashioned, 'squeeze 'em till the pips squeak', rip-off habits, that were the central plank of the old guard, die hard.

I have to admit that my postulation of environment and cultural protection was somewhat tongue-in-cheek and you quite rightly and rationally demolished it.

 

[jordanbasset]

I suspect Greece will get even busier as a result of this

 

[sailaboutvic]

Crisjones , as I sure your very well aware , over the last five year I have encourage quite a lot of cruiser to go and try Croatia well over 50 to 60 and I very glad I did ,
Like yourself everyone has reported back that they had nothing but good experience ,
It's a shame that now for some of us there new charges are going to stop us returning , what a pity .
No matter what some say here ,
Croatia has one of the best cruising ground in the Med ,
We can only hope that this madness is stopped .

 

[crisjones]

Crisjones , as I sure your very well aware , over the last five year I have encourage quite a lot of cruiser to go and try Croatia well over 50 to 60 and I very glad I did ,
Like yourself everyone has reported back that they had nothing but good experience ,
It's a shame that now for some of us there new charges are going to stop us returning , what a pity .
No matter what some say here ,
Croatia has one of the best cruising ground in the Med ,
We can only hope that this madness is stopped .

Hi Vic,

You are correct in everything you say about Croatia, we have had a great summer, the scenery is beautiful, free safe anchorages are plentiful, the overwhelming majority of the Croatians are friendly and helpful and the sailing can be wonderful with flat seas and F4-F5 winds much of the time. Before these tax increases I, too, would have encouraged anyone to sail Croatia.

One caveat to all that praise is that as we are now south of Split and heading towards Dubrovnik the proliferation of mooring buoys and chargeable anchorages is certainly more noticeable. However we are still maintaining our goal of not paying for moorings or anchoring, we just have to look a little more carefully where we are planning to stop in these more commercially oriented waters. Alternatively there are many more places in this area with restaurant moorings that are free if you use the establishment they are connected to, although some of these places have reputations for being overpriced so you could argue the mooring is not exactly free!! (This is mainly hearsay since we do not use restaurant moorings, we prefer to have a free choice when we eat out).

In addition your website has been a great source of info and we have used many of the anchorages you highlight.

For sailors who have not been to Croatia it is a wonderful cruising area and it is probably just about worth paying the 90day Sojourn Tax for a 3 month cruise. If you are thinking about it try and avoid most of July and August - it is horrendously busy anywhere near the charter bases. One of the highlights for us was the Krka River and Falls - simply stunning - again avoid July and August due to the rip-off price increase for those months.

It is a real shame that Croatia see's yachts as an inexhaustible cash cow with the "squeeze em until the pip's squeak" attitude mentioned by Barnacle being all too prevalent. Unfortunately Croatia and anyone involved with yacht tourism are running a business and seem to have no qualms about maximising their profits at every opportunity. Maybe that attitude will come home to bite them, but I can't see it happening in the near future.

Apart from the swingeing increase in the Sojourn Tax it is still possible to cruise Croatia relatively cheaply as long as you are prepared to make a little effort. Main supermarkets are about 5 or 10% cheaper than Greece and local markets are everywhere, eating out is generally more expensive than Greece but so is the quality. Overall 3 months in Croatia with all the taxes is probably not much more than 3 months in Greece when you consider everything.

Having said all that I still think the Sojourn Tax increase for yachts is an absloute rip-off!!!

 

[crisjones]

Your points are irrefutable and I agree that the old Yugoslavian command economy mentality, when foreign currency was critical to the survival of the state, is alive and well. It seems that old-fashioned, 'squeeze 'em till the pips squeak', rip-off habits, that were the central plank of the old guard, die hard.

I have to admit that my postulation of environment and cultural protection was somewhat tongue-in-cheek and you quite rightly and rationally demolished it.

Barnacle,
You are very generous with your considered reply.
Maybe we will get a chance to meet up one day, share many beers and put the world to rights - I am sure it would be an educational, fun time!!

 

[BrianH]

Barnacle,
You are very generous with your considered reply.
Maybe we will get a chance to meet up one day, share many beers and put the world to rights - I am sure it would be an educational, fun time!!

I'm sure too, I look forward to that. But don't expect me to always be so generous and conciliatory

Which reminds me why I took advantage of the brief window of good weather in this awful northern Adriatic autumn, to up anchor and return to my marina in order to tell my German friends there how to vote tomorrow. All but one told me to get lost, they had already voted by post, the exception said he wasn't going to vote, but he looked very shifty-eyed, probably an AfD supporter. I didn't press the issue, he might have mentioned Brexit.

 

[andrejv]

Apart from the swingeing increase in the Sojourn Tax it is still possible to cruise Croatia relatively cheaply as long as you are prepared to make a little effort. Main supermarkets are about 5 or 10% cheaper than Greece and local markets are everywhere, eating out is generally more expensive than Greece but so is the quality. Overall 3 months in Croatia with all the taxes is probably not much more than 3 months in Greece when you consider everything.

Having said all that I still think the Sojourn Tax increase for yachts is an absloute rip-off!!!

After 30 years of cruising in Croatia, and 3 in Greece (Ionian) I see that I spend the same amount of the money for the yearly cruise. The difference is only how my money is spent. In Greece I dine out almost every day, while in Croatia I spent most of the money for the moorings in small villages, and I only seldom dined out.

I just hope that the Greeks wont follow the Croatians example..