Croatia EU VAT - New Advice!?

Maritimus said:
According to UK rules pleasure crafts bigger than 20 tons must pay light dues!
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http://www.trinityhouse.co.uk/th/about/funding.html

The service provided by Trinity House is financed from 'Light Dues' levied on commercial vessels calling at ports in the British Isles, based on the net registered tonnage of the vessel. The rate is set by the Department of Transport, and annually reviewed. Light Dues are currently charged at 41 pence per net registered ton, subject to a maximum charge of £16,400 per voyage in 2010. Vessels are charged for a maximum of nine voyages per annum. Tugs and fishing vessels are liable for annual payments based on the registered length of the vessel.

Light dues are paid in to the General Lighthouse Fund (GLF), which is under the stewardship of the Department for Transport. The fund is used to finance the lighthouse services provided by Trinity House, the Northern Lighthouse Board (responsible for Scotland and the Isle of Man) and the Commissioners of Irish Lights (responsible for the waters around both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland). Major initiatives such as lighthouse and lightvessel automation and the solarisation of buoys and a growing number of lighthouses have made a significant contribution to the reduction of Light Dues. The rate of Light Dues has fallen in real terms for over a decade with the rate either being frozen or cut. 2009 saw the first increase in Light Dues for 20 years.
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The 20 tons rule is not enforced.

Certainly I know no-one who pays light dues in the U.K. on a pleasure vessel.

http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/ne...dstoAtkinsreportonMarineAidstoNavigation.aspx

Atkins Report on Marine Aids to Navigation

In June 2009 the Department for Transport appointed consultants Atkins Ltd to undertake an independent assessment of the provision of marine aids to navigation around the UK and Ireland. The then Shipping Minister Paul Clark MP published Atkins Ltd’s report in March 2010.

The Atkins report contained over fifty recommendations, including the proposal that all pleasure craft over a specified size should make a contribution to the costs of providing general aids to navigation (i.e. pay light dues).

Under the Merchant Shipping (Light Dues) Regulations 1997, pleasure vessels with a tonnage of 20 tonnes or more are already subject to light dues at a rate of £77 per year but in practice this charge is not collected as it is not financially viable to do so.

The proposal in the Atkins report was for light dues to be paid by much smaller pleasure craft, at a significantly higher rate, which would also necessitate compulsory registration of such craft.

The RYA took the view that several of the assumptions and statements made in the report in relation to recreational boating were flawed and we wrote to Mr Clark to highlight our concerns.
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Maritimus said:
I am surprized that you are boat owner and that you don't know what is light dues and safety dues. Each country which have sea including Poland is charging this. What you think who is building Lights, lighthouses and oder signals at sea and who is paying for this. Governments (agencies) are building and users are paying. Same is for SAR (search and rescue). Did anyone ever received bill for saving lifes? No. This is financed from safety dues. Property is different but this is not goverment care. What is vignette? Light and safety dues made on one paper to save you running around and paying several different bils.

Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
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I think you will find very few countries in the EU have any light dues for pleasure craft. Portugal does, but it is very small and not regularly collected. Spain has a range of taxes that are collected as part of berthing fees, but there are no light dues. Greece collects tax through berthing fees which are very small, rarely collected from visitors but included in permanent berthing charges. In the UK there are no national taxes as already explained but most regulated harbours have harbour dues collected with permanent mooring fees.

One of the constant criticisms of Croatia for visitors is the high charges, restrictions and bureaucracy compared with EU countries which it is hoped will reduce when it joins the EU, just as it did to an extent in Greece.
 
I have moored non-Italian-registered yachts in Italy for over 30 years and never had to pay any other fees beyond the berthing cost (which does not have any hidden other charges). Since 1980 I have cruised Croatia and paid costs far, far beyond any other country in Europe or throughout the Caribbean where I have cruised since first going foreign (from the UK) in 1972.

It is time Croatia joined the real world and stopped thinking of normal yacht-owners as milk-cows.
 
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Baggywrinkle said:
With all due respect, I think this is the root of the problem. Every other country that has joined the EU has had this 8 year rule from the EU Vat Directive, article 420. Croatia will most probably also have the rule but because it is a "directive" it has to be implemented by the Croatian government and become part of Croatian law, effective from 01.07.2013.

This has not yet been done, and the government are not indicating when or if it will be done. This is creating uncertainty for all foreign owned old boats in Croatia.

Add to that the requirement for a EUR1 and "nothing else will do!" seems also like a very unfair way to get older EU sourced boats to pay import duty.

This effectively makes it uneconomical for owners of old boats to take the 5% offer as with all the other associated costs it will run into thousands of euros - possibly more than 20% of the value of an older boat.

This means that owners of older boats have a dilemma.

Go to Slovenia or Italy and pay 20% of a cheap boat (approx €4000 on a €20,000 boat). Or pay 5% + 1,7% + agents fees + registration + light dues + radio license + translations etc. This could easily cost €4000 in total and so far it doesn't seem particularly easy - especially as there are many agents who just want to take the money.

The other option for older boats is just to go to Turkey, which for owners who fly to Croatia wouldn't make that much of a difference.

I personally think the 5% offer is a great way for newer boats to stay in Croatia, but we all know older, less valuable boats should be exempt, just like they were in other countries.

They probably will be it's just the Croatian government seem to be refusing to comment or give any information on this point. The only conclusion I can draw is that it is an attempt to frighten even older boat owners into the 5% scheme.

For me the worst case scenario is Croatia tries to avoid the directive and charges all older boats 25%. This will then be dragged through the European Courts by the affected boat owners until the money is paid back - that would be a real shame.

Why can't Croatia simply promote the 5% scheme for newer boats, clarify the requirements for showing EU origin and honour the 8 year VAT Directive. Then everyone will know exactly where they stand and be happy to stay in Croatia. As it is we are all in a panic because it appears that Croatia is trying to maximise profit at the expense of the international boating community.

I'm sorry to direct this at you but it is extremely frustrating for boat owners. If you have any means to convey this frustration to your tax authorities and government then please do so.
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It`s frustrating I agree but I used the calculator kindly supplied bt Maritimus and costs for a Euro 20000 value boat say 10m lonth with a 20Kw are only Euro 3017.84 and this ( i sincerely hope)
 
chrisgee said:
It`s frustrating I agree but I used the calculator kindly supplied bt Maritimus and costs for a Euro 20000 value boat say 10m lonth with a 20Kw are only Euro 3017.84 and this ( i sincerely hope) is with ALL the charges and is therefore better than going to say Italy.

Sorry if this post comes out a bit messy ----put it down to this useless "improved" forum style.
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Maritimus said:
@ Tranona

Big nois about small issue . Light dues are 120 kn what is 15 Euro and safety dues 200 kn what is 27 Euro. In total 42 euros what is year tax. Only one night in marina out of your domicile cost 50 Euro.

Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
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Although those taxes might be low the costs for yachting in general are high as your estimates for carrying out registration and meeting registration conditions illustrate. You are talking several 00's Euros for something that in the UK would cost a maximum of £500 for full registration and £25 for simple registration. Neither of these are actually required by law so you can buy and use a boat in the UK with no formalities.
 
@ Tranona

Fully agree with you. Solution is to stay in UK and enjoy summer there. We are not forcing anyone to come and we are not forcing anyone to import boat in croatia and we are not forcing anyone to leave Croatia. EU is forcing boats to escape from Croatia which was safe haven for many years to the people which do not want pay tax in their countries ( for what i am not takin them wrong. Even i would like to be one of :cool:)

@ chrissgee

Thks for nice words. Maritimus cost calculator is the best estimate. Probably will be some small descrepancy in excghange rate or dues but we are talking about may be 100 euro difference what is peanut.

Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
 
chrisgee said:
It`s frustrating I agree but I used the calculator kindly supplied bt Maritimus and costs for a Euro 20000 value boat say 10m lonth with a 20Kw are only Euro 3017.84 and this ( i sincerely hope) is with ALL the charges and is therefore better than going to say Italy.

Sorry if this post comes out a bit messy ----put it down to this useless "improved" forum style.
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If I were you I'd get it written as a fixed price contract, and perhaps include the cost of re-flagging back to your original country to effectively be back where you started. Or do you intend to remain under Croatian jurisdiction indefinately? It might be worth investigating the ongoing costs compared to your original flag state. Also determine beforehand if any costs for translations or public notaries are likely, this will be very dependent on the paperwork you have. I don't think it would be too difficult to lose another €900 on the deal.

My experience buying, exporting and sailing my yacht in Croatia is that an "official" often appears asking for additional cash, one didn't want to be seen accepting it in front of the customs officers or police - I could have kicked up a fuss but in a foreign country you're pretty powerless as the rules are never certain - just pay up and get it over with. I went around 20% over budget and had to borrow cash from my crew to meet "unexpected export costs". Perhaps I was unlucky and I hope Martimus will guarantee the total cost for you.

Examples where I have been fleeced ... "spedition" - €200 cash for someone who was effectively paid twice - he billed the seller and me but was employed by the seller - I found out too late.
Soujourn Tax, paid in full at the start of the holiday to the charter company but collected again by a 'man in a boat' in Molat - refunded by the Charter company.
Rovinj has paid moorings in the southern bay below the marina, anchoring is free. We stayed at anchor for 3 days Thursday to Sunday and watched the man in the boat collecting dues from the yachts on the moorings every night. On Saturday night he started motoring round the foreign flagged anchored boats and eventually got to us, demanding €10 for anchoring. I queried this but he said we should contact the harbour master - which would be open again on Monday. He was very insistent and as usual, because of the sums involved it's cheaper to pay up than argue for too long.

There are many more examples and fortunately they are the exception rather than the rule, in general we love the place but such events leave a nasty taste and inflate costs.
 
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Propose we go back to Topic please .......


Anyone any more info on the VAT process ?

Understand there was still some charges under review ..

"
P.S. There is one small problem. This is calculation with expected harbour master office fee of 540 Euro which is in pipeline but not signrd jet. At the moment in force is 1500 Euro fee.
"
 
Do we know the position regarding tenders? Do they have to be registered and if so what are the cost implications? I see one agent has a category for boats under 7metres. What if you have a tender and outboard that is VAT paid; presume no extra payments?

At the Dussledorf show one agent mentioned the "boat tax" (luxury tax) which is 'going through Govt' now I was told cost for 15m boat would be 4000 kuna. Anyone seen this?
Are deregistration costs still an uncertanty and will these be changed post July 1st.
 
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Dave100456 said:
Do we know the position regarding tenders? Do they have to be registered and if so what are the cost implications? I see one agent has a category for boats under 7metres. What if you have a tender and outboard that is VAT paid; presume no extra payments?

At the Dussledorf show one agent mentioned the "boat tax" (luxury tax) which is 'going through Govt' now I was told cost for 15m boat would be 4000 kuna. Anyone seen this?
Are deregistration costs still an uncertanty and will these be changed post July 1st.
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Hang on ! Let`s not give `em any more ideas. Tender -- what tender?
 
Maritimus said:
5% and 1.7%!

Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
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we sure on that ?

I have seen an earlier statement saying ' 2,7% for rubber boats has been passed' - good job mine is made of Hypalon then !

So just to be clear ... you register your dinghy as part of your main boat registration ? - not another separate registration process that costs 1000 more euros ?

I bought my dinghy in the EU also ... so i have already paid VAT once (have the receipt) - dont tell me I needed an EUR1 for that too ??
 
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Here is another nice one for those with a couple of VHF Portables onboard !

NOTE: The starting price for the license for the use of radiofrequency spectrum on a boat is 500,00 kn = 67 EUR if there is only one device on a boat.
 
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d4raffy said:
Understand there was still some charges under review ..

"
P.S. There is one small problem. This is calculation with expected harbour master office fee of 540 Euro which is in pipeline but not signrd jet. At the moment in force is 1500 Euro fee.
"
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Understand this has now been confirmed - anyone validate ?
 
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