Crisis, help urgently needed.

[ffiill]

They could of course drain the dock but I cannot recall whether you go through Fleetwood Marina to the old dock via a second set of locks or whether they are one and the same.Because if they are one and the same you would have to get all the yachts out of the Marina first!
The art of course might be to raise it up a little in the water with a heavy crane;pump some water out and then crane again then pump.
Sadly this is not an unusual event.A nice old fishing boat did the same just off South Laggan Locks on the Caley Canal and an old Watson lifeboat likewise in the Muirtown basin not forgetting what was once a nice Tremlet speed boat which spent a winter only showing the airfilled bow on Loch Ness.

 

[Bilgediver]

I agree absolutely. I have warned Mark that no way should he try buoyancy inside. The structure below the weather deck is support only. There is no real downwards strength. Currently with two 4" pumps he is shifting nearly 300 tons per hour. Where is it all coming from?

Doors from afterdeck....Portholes in Tween decks????

 

[OceanSprint]

This last Saturday could have contributed?

ASSOCIATED BRITISH PORTS FLEETWOOD

SLUICING OF THE DOCK CHANNEL


MARINERS ARE ADVISED THAT SLUICING OF THE DOCK CHANNEL WILL TAKE PLACE OVER THE LW PERIOD AFTER THE FOLLOWING H.W. TIDE TIMES: -

Thursday 25th April 2013 11.31hrs. BST
Friday 26th April 2013 12.12hrs . BST
Saturday 27th April 2013 12.55hrs . BST


TRAWLER SKIPPERS ARE REQUESTED TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS SUFFICIENT SCOPE IN THEIR MOORINGS TO ALLOW FOR THE FALL IN DOCK LEVEL.

The original OP has not responded to this one yet. Could this have been a causative factor?

 

[NickRobinson]

The original OP has not responded to this one yet. Could this have been a causative factor?

I'd not expected a reply, the OP and son have far too much on. I was checking out/passage planning for this weekend and saw it on the w/site.

It makes you think though, my boat it there too and I don't check the port notices when I'm not going to the boat.

(and it may be an irrelevant coincidence too)

Nick

 

[Graham_Wright]

This last Saturday could have contributed?

ASSOCIATED BRITISH PORTS FLEETWOOD

SLUICING OF THE DOCK CHANNEL


MARINERS ARE ADVISED THAT SLUICING OF THE DOCK CHANNEL WILL TAKE PLACE OVER THE LW PERIOD AFTER THE FOLLOWING H.W. TIDE TIMES: -

Thursday 25th April 2013 11.31hrs. BST
Friday 26th April 2013 12.12hrs . BST
Saturday 27th April 2013 12.55hrs . BST


TRAWLER SKIPPERS ARE REQUESTED TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS SUFFICIENT SCOPE IN THEIR MOORINGS TO ALLOW FOR THE FALL IN DOCK LEVEL.

Having mentioned this to Mark, he and I cannot see how this could have been a factor. However, if the cooperative enthusiasm currently being displayed by the port officials begins to wane, it would be an idea to casually ask them the question. At the moment, there is a lot of goodwill in the port and everybody is being helpful.

Today will be a telling day. With two 4" submersible pumps, 5 2" submersibles and a 2 1/2" petrol, that is a lot of water on the move.

An overnight thought was about the cooling water intake for the engine. If this is in the bottom of the hull, it could possibly be used to blow air under to release the suction. it does have a valve so the modifications to the connections could be made without worsening the inflow situation.

 

[Daydream believer]

Having mentioned this to Mark, he and I cannot see how this could have been a factor. However, if the cooperative enthusiasm currently being displayed by the port officials begins to wane, it would be an idea to casually ask them the question. At the moment, there is a lot of goodwill in the port and everybody is being helpful.
.

My suggestion to scrap the boats has raised some annoyance from others. The correct way to recover the vessel would have been a salvage vessel alongside with all the necessary lifting gear. Trouble is that you would have probably been in for a minimum £ 10 K so that was a non runner from the start.
The trouble is that goodwill only lasts so long. Once that stops a lot of incriminations & finger wagging starts. Then the bill really escalates. If you cannot refloat it you still have to move it.
If you do raise the boat ( & everyone likes to see the little chap struggling against the odds come up trumps) you still have the problem of keeping it afloat, repairing it, using it in the future etc etc. the repairs will take ages, storage will run up costs. There is every chance that your son will eventually have to give up & get on with his life. Perhaps not , he may eventually win & have every right to be extremely proud of achieving something in life.

I do not know the value of the boat but from descriptions it cannot be too high ( although the emotional value may be very high). Emotions are not always the best routes to follow & my suggestion to cut your losses & walk away are not quite so frivolous as some may think. The further you go the deeper in you get.
Good luck with today's efforts but in the end i may be proved right with both of my somewhat contentious posts. My first one has already been proved to be dead right

 

[maby]

...
Good luck with today's efforts but in the end i may be proved right with both of my somewhat contentious posts. My first one has already been proved to be dead right

I suspect that many of us here are sceptical about the chances of success and the economics of trying to salvage her. I also suspect that a high proportion would agree that it should have been insured 3rd party - I'm sure the owner is wishing it was! But those topics should be consigned to another thread and this one used to provide suggestions and support to the owners in their current attempts.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Doors from afterdeck....Portholes in Tween decks????

Both of these are above the lowered dock water level. Mark managed a five foot drop in the engine room yesterday - sufficient to see ingress from cut-off hydraulic pipes. I think a major source could be the engine cooling water outflow which is shared with a sewage outflow. By memory, I think this is three inch. It is valved but I don't know if that is closed.

Trouble is, the water is so cold he needs a dry suit (or even a wet suit - was enough for me). He has one- back in Inverness together with the underwater television camera! Just a five and a half hour trip each way! The local dive shop has not offered one on hire and the lifeboat destroy their U/S ones.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Thinking laterally, would not be cheaper to get a large excavator on the dock ( if it can take the weight) & smash it up & stick it in a skip
Considering the hassle & cost there comes a time when you have to make a serious, if not heart rendering decision
Even if you do salvage it that will not be the end of the costs

I know it's a long thread, but the info is there. Dock limit is 2 tons. Boat weighs 64 tons and is 63' LOA.

 

[Graham_Wright]

They could of course drain the dock but I cannot recall whether you go through Fleetwood Marina to the old dock via a second set of locks or whether they are one and the same.Because if they are one and the same you would have to get all the yachts out of the Marina first!
The art of course might be to raise it up a little in the water with a heavy crane;pump some water out and then crane again then pump.
Sadly this is not an unusual event.A nice old fishing boat did the same just off South Laggan Locks on the Caley Canal and an old Watson lifeboat likewise in the Muirtown basin not forgetting what was once a nice Tremlet speed boat which spent a winter only showing the airfilled bow on Loch Ness.

They took the dock down to the safest possible level which actually caused some damage to the marina pontoons. Subsequently, they will add another 200mm to this lowered level. It doesn't sound a lot, but does mean the weather deck is awash - just.

There is only one set of lock gates (together with a very helpful lock keeper).

 

[Graham_Wright]

She's afloat!

 

[Talulah]

She's afloat!

Brilliant news.
Photos required asap

 

[chewi]

She's afloat!

yay!
congratulations, that was indeed a tricky situation. I'm sure you wil explain how 'twas done.

I only got to understand late on in the thread why she was uninsured, not for the want of spending, but because of a chicken and egg situation with survey.
I couldn't contribute to a solution so I kept schtum.

 

[Nautorius]

Brilliant news.
Photos required asap

Fantastic News....I have been hoping you would get there. I remember reading an old sailor say "Never give up on an old boat and she may well repay you sometime..." Keep going at it, amazing drive so far to get this far.

Paul

 

[maby]

She's afloat!

Wow! That was fast - please explain when you have time!

 

[chrisbitz]

Hooray!!! Pics please!

 

[Graham_Wright]

It's all in the pumps you know!

Two 4" pumps each delivering (at zero head which was the case) 40 litres per second. Doing the sums, that's 140 tons per hour each!
Five 2" pumps at ~7000 litres per hour and
One petrol pump at ~10000 litres per hour.

That's an awful lot of water being pumped out. I guess that 90% of that was coming straight back in until she started to rise.

Where there's a will there's a way and my family don't give up very easily!

 

[maby]

It's all in the pumps you know!

Two 4" pumps each delivering (at zero head which was the case) 40 litres per second. Doing the sums, that's 140 tons per hour each!
Five 2" pumps at ~7000 litres per hour and
One petrol pump at ~10000 litres per hour.

That's an awful lot of water being pumped out. I guess that 90% of that was coming straight back in until she started to rise.

Where there's a will there's a way and my family don't give up very easily!

Hmmm, that is a lot of water - now the $64,000 question - can you keep it afloat??? Are you able to identify all the leaks? Can you block enough of them so that you don't need the entire output of Drax to keep her afloat?

 

[Graham_Wright]

Hmmm, that is a lot of water - now the $64,000 question - can you keep it afloat??? Are you able to identify all the leaks? Can you block enough of them so that you don't need the entire output of Drax to keep her afloat?

The hope is that most of the "finish her off" leaks were above the waterline. She is still taking water but only to a small degree. The plan now is to allow her (or, more likely, cause her) to sink again under control and mark the leaks as they become apparent. Then they can be fixed at "leisure".

There was damage to the transom in that the bollards were ripped off. That may have caused damage below the water line.

We will see.

Once again, my utmost gratitude to all on the forum who helped.

 

[Wandering Star]

That's absolutely fantastic news. Haven't contributed to this thread because I didn't have any expertise to offer but I'm really, really happy for you! I hope your son appreciates what a great dad you are!

Cheers, Brian.