Stemar
Well-Known Member
A tip: It feels so good when you stop...
That's why I'm a firm believer in not feeding trolls. Once my troll detector or BS detector goes off, I'm out.
Cradle or stands for a bilge keeler
- Thread starter sur-la-mer
- Start date
A tip: It feels so good when you stop...
That's why I'm a firm believer in not feeding trolls. Once my troll detector or BS detector goes off, I'm out.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
I felt insulted to be honest. If that had not happened - I probably would have walked away as well.
sur-la-mer
N/A
In cases such as these, to accuse someone of being "troll", is just a face saving device. It's as embarrassingly inaccurate use as Trump going on about "Fake News", while faking news. It's just an "I don't like".
I can't remember which company I spoke to right now, might have been Tennamast, but the cradle they recommend was basically their standard model (according to size) with the addition of a t- or y- support in the middle. Simple as that. No concerns of its safety or practically.
I was asking to see if anyone had had experience of them. That simple.
Not for bodges, workarounds requiring 18 ton cranes, or medieval solutions that obscure the underside of the keels and requiring multiple jacks and jackings, and moving of blocks back and forward.
Big difference, you show me a picture of your boat on your own land, right? You're not paying for it to be there. You can keep it there for as long as you like and fart around for as long as you like. I can't. The longer it sits, the more I pay.
In your first post, you went off too fast on numerous wrong directions (can explain). You didn't read and comprehend what I wrote. And then so did most of the rest of the conversation. It went off in the wrong direction to defend you/r position.
Your *good* advice, for which I am grateful, was that if I am forced to do a medieval bodge, I could use shape forming sandbags to support the hull. Not sure if the yard has any, but that was a great idea. Far better than wedges etc. Equally good as proper pads on a cradle stand. So too was Guardian's idea of cutting out a profile matching support.
Although, still a) a fall back position, and b) expense I want to avoid.
If I can put it in a standard-style cradle, adapted for a bilge keelers with t- pt y- supports that are on site, it means; one lift in, one lift out, no jacking about, and I can get the work done is a few days without any further obstructions.
I can race through the work in a systematic manner; treat, dry, treat, dry, treat, dry, job done. No stops to jack off and on.
Now, I've been in business. I've worked in technical trades. If something arose like this on my yard, the question I'd be asking is, "I wonder if this is a service I should offer. Here's a demand I had not considered, perhaps it's worth considering". Sadly, that's not always the case. There are tend to be various non-thinking tendencies from a NIH (not invented here), to a "we always do it the we done it". I'd try it out.
I'm 99% convinced that there are no technical objections to doing so whatsoever, and likely the no cost equipment is already on site.
I can't remember which company I spoke to right now, might have been Tennamast, but the cradle they recommend was basically their standard model (according to size) with the addition of a t- or y- support in the middle. Simple as that. No concerns of its safety or practically.
I was asking to see if anyone had had experience of them. That simple.
Not for bodges, workarounds requiring 18 ton cranes, or medieval solutions that obscure the underside of the keels and requiring multiple jacks and jackings, and moving of blocks back and forward.
Big difference, you show me a picture of your boat on your own land, right? You're not paying for it to be there. You can keep it there for as long as you like and fart around for as long as you like. I can't. The longer it sits, the more I pay.
In your first post, you went off too fast on numerous wrong directions (can explain). You didn't read and comprehend what I wrote. And then so did most of the rest of the conversation. It went off in the wrong direction to defend you/r position.
Your *good* advice, for which I am grateful, was that if I am forced to do a medieval bodge, I could use shape forming sandbags to support the hull. Not sure if the yard has any, but that was a great idea. Far better than wedges etc. Equally good as proper pads on a cradle stand. So too was Guardian's idea of cutting out a profile matching support.
Although, still a) a fall back position, and b) expense I want to avoid.
If I can put it in a standard-style cradle, adapted for a bilge keelers with t- pt y- supports that are on site, it means; one lift in, one lift out, no jacking about, and I can get the work done is a few days without any further obstructions.
I can race through the work in a systematic manner; treat, dry, treat, dry, treat, dry, job done. No stops to jack off and on.
Now, I've been in business. I've worked in technical trades. If something arose like this on my yard, the question I'd be asking is, "I wonder if this is a service I should offer. Here's a demand I had not considered, perhaps it's worth considering". Sadly, that's not always the case. There are tend to be various non-thinking tendencies from a NIH (not invented here), to a "we always do it the we done it". I'd try it out.
I'm 99% convinced that there are no technical objections to doing so whatsoever, and likely the no cost equipment is already on site.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz .........
[159032]
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and you are he.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Everyone else by now would have had the jobs done ............. and back at the bar sipping pints thinking ... job well done.
sur-la-mer
N/A
Nice theory, meaningly in practise.
You're writing from a privileged position of having your boat stuck in your own back garden.
Big difference when it's 200 miles away (both ways), and Covid-19 limits you to 7 hour shifts.
Trust me, I considered the garden option but it would have meant more cost, cutting trees down, and dealing the planning department so ... again ... you need to consider the big picture that you don't know.
I am working within what I have.
You're writing from a privileged position of having your boat stuck in your own back garden.
Big difference when it's 200 miles away (both ways), and Covid-19 limits you to 7 hour shifts.
Trust me, I considered the garden option but it would have meant more cost, cutting trees down, and dealing the planning department so ... again ... you need to consider the big picture that you don't know.
I am working within what I have.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
For many years my boats were in yards and I worked them as needed by methods described.
I had agreements with Transmarine Transport to work boats ... allied to my Survey Business in UK. So lifting / moving boats of all sorts was common place for me. You ponce about with your posts and waste energy when you ought to be out there getting it done.
Your harping on about my boat being in garden - is only in latter years.
The principle though makes no difference my garden or yard.
No-one can help you - you've made it clear. So sort yourself out - use your energy and brain cell to get the job done.
Then post back here what idiots I and others are.
sur-la-mer
N/A
I asked you to go through a work schedule of how many operations it would take, and you won't because you know perfectly well that it's a huge number more, and would take much longer. Even you can see that.
Your ego can't cope with admitting it, and having it pointed out in public, and so you turn to personal insults instead.
Yes, I've also dealt with contractors like that. To hide being caught out, they huff and puff about how one is impugning their reputations but, really, one just caught them out on their scam.
In a way, perhaps you're even part of a typical problem in the industry, of recommending solutions and procedures that are far more involved than required ... because they take longer and, hence, earn more money.
Sometimes this is consciously done, we all know cases of motor garages trying it on; sometimes it is unconsciously done by habit.
If you have any professional integrity ... and I'm doubting it ... I'll give you some homework. Go speak to a couple of the major manufacturers of cradles and see if using one is possible. See what the experts say.
There's a lot of exploitation in the recreational marine industry because it's generally exploiting high value individuals, beyond their best at physical labour, with little technical experience. Perhaps you're just part of that?
Mr Makeworks. Surveyors do a lot of it.
Your ego can't cope with admitting it, and having it pointed out in public, and so you turn to personal insults instead.
Yes, I've also dealt with contractors like that. To hide being caught out, they huff and puff about how one is impugning their reputations but, really, one just caught them out on their scam.
In a way, perhaps you're even part of a typical problem in the industry, of recommending solutions and procedures that are far more involved than required ... because they take longer and, hence, earn more money.
Sometimes this is consciously done, we all know cases of motor garages trying it on; sometimes it is unconsciously done by habit.
If you have any professional integrity ... and I'm doubting it ... I'll give you some homework. Go speak to a couple of the major manufacturers of cradles and see if using one is possible. See what the experts say.
There's a lot of exploitation in the recreational marine industry because it's generally exploiting high value individuals, beyond their best at physical labour, with little technical experience. Perhaps you're just part of that?
Not everyone is humble enough, or finds it easy to admit, a blackhole in their knowledge of their trade/interest.
Not all tradesmen keep uptodate with new developments and struggling on "doing things they way they were always done".
Mr Makeworks. Surveyors do a lot of it.
WoodyP
Well-Known Member
I get the feeling you don't actually want to do it. It's a cheap old BK, which is what I have.
Put it on blocks, do everything up to the blocks, move blocks, do the rest, go sailing.
Put it on blocks, do everything up to the blocks, move blocks, do the rest, go sailing.
sur-la-mer
N/A
Thank you Mystic Meg, your insights are blindingly helpful. Clearly now I know what I really want to do, or indeed don't want to do.
Sorry for the sarcasm but why bother filling up the topic with even more of the same cruft?
I've been through what I want to do. I don't just want to slop some anti-foul on.
Is that really so hard for people to get?
Yes, if someone just wants to slop some anti-foul on, that is one way to do it. But I'm doing more and it won't work, and doing that way is hugely more time consuming. Which is what I don't have.
Sorry for the sarcasm but why bother filling up the topic with even more of the same cruft?
I've been through what I want to do. I don't just want to slop some anti-foul on.
Is that really so hard for people to get?
Yes, if someone just wants to slop some anti-foul on, that is one way to do it. But I'm doing more and it won't work, and doing that way is hugely more time consuming. Which is what I don't have.
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WoodyP
Well-Known Member
You're putting lipstick on a pig.
MarkCX
Well-Known Member
Standard procedure in these parts.
Originally on one block at each point, but trolley jacked up to add in extra blocks and adjust. Not a small boat either.
chriss999
Well-Known Member
Interesting approach. Ask forumites for their experiences , then insult them when they give them.
Could you post pics here to show what you’ve done?
sur-la-mer
N/A
I'm restoring an early classic GRP, so hopefully it will be here in how ever many decades. It's a thing some people do rather than just scrap them.
Sure, a "new Prius" makes much more sense than restoring an "old A30", but some of us like A30s and others are grateful they have been kept alive.
Actually, from a sailing point of view, it fits my needs much better than a "new Prius" would, and they simply don't make them like they used to. One could not afford to.
Been through this ten times already.
Not helpful. Not apt. Nice boat, but not addressing the question.
Thanks.
WoodyP
Well-Known Member
Is this a last word thread?
[159032]
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Yes.
No more now.
No more now.
sur-la-mer
N/A
How drole.
It would be good if we could delete all the off topic cruft so as to help others investigation the same options.
Sadly a small picture but from a page about repairing the keels on another Centaur.
Note the use of ordinary acro-style props, strapped together it looks, to get the height to remove the keels.
