Cracked hull windows. Any advice?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted User YDKXO
  • Start date Start date
Really sorry to read about this! Could it be caused by the bonding material aging and getting stiff, too stiff to provide for the flexibility needed to attach the dissimilar materials to each other? I would try to find out what bonding has been used, how thick how does it age etc. If you cut out a pice, how does it feel? Maybe there are better material available today making the repair safer. From the pictures of your boat the glass seems not to be curved. Therefore it should not be difficult to find replacements.
 
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Kingfisher 3 said:
Y Insurance say 'latent manufacturing defect' ... have they been and looked at it? Maybe you can get a surveyor to tell them it's damage ... what will they say then?
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Nope Y turned down the claim on the basis of the photos I've put on this thread
 
henryf said:
I'm keeeping an eye out to see how Ferretti respond. It's hard to see how this can be anything other than a manufacture defect and people investing large sums in current new boats need confidence that they won't be in your shoes. You can't just sweep the problem away by saying our new boats are better. We are constantly being told of new technologies employed so I would want to know a boat builder stood by their product. If not I would buy elsewhere.

If Ferretti profit from this it shows they have no concern at all about the long term quality of their product. Make it good enough to get get it out of the factory gates then sod 'em. If it's a supplier issue not an assembly issue then lean on that supplier who will most likely still be supplying the factory.
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To be fair to Ferretti, the boat was 9yrs old when I first noticed these cracks. Unless anyone can tell me different I suspect that the first reaction of any manufacturer with a boat of this age would be to say not our problem. What I was hoping for, given the fact that I have bought 3 used Ferrettis in a row, was at least more interest in the issue and a bit of discount on the cost of the windows as a gesture of goodwill. I am under no illusion that Ferretti would treat this as a warranty issue
 
petem said:
But what happens if the crack get a lot worse in say May and the boat becomes un-seaworthy. Waiting three of four months for a replacement could write off the whole summer. At least get an idea from Ferretti how long it would take to get the glass.
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Yes Pete I have asked them to confirm delivery
 
I would hesitate "throwing " anything at Ferretti until the last blocking off has been investigated .
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Nope I have no photos of how the boat was blocked only photos of the boat being lifted in the yard's hoist. I would be very surprised if the yard did not block up the boat correctly or mishandled it in any way as they have a very good reputation locally and deal with far larger boats than mine. Certainly their service to me over the 2 1/2yrs I was in the area was excellent.
 
Deleted User said:
Yes Pete I have asked them to confirm delivery
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Cool.

As a bystander (sorry Mike I do feel for you), as stated above, I wonder it this is the tip of the iceberg. From what I can understand, Ferretti were a fairly early adopter of 'in hull' windows. Is it possible we'll see other manufacturers and boats seeing the same issue at the 10-15 year old mark? If some of the original boat manufacturers and glass suppliers fall by the wayside, fixing them could be a real headache. You could be stuck with making templates and guessing at the specification of the window. No doubt I'll see threads asking for help / advice on this topic on my forum in due course.

Compared to the value of Mike's boat, £8k plus fitting isn't the end of the world but that's gonna hurt on a 20 year old boat that might only be worth £100k or so.

Incidentally, on the subject of 'frits', I see occasional posts reporting these are starting to come away. Unlikely to be functional issue but is a cosmetic one and the only remedy is new glass (if you can persuade Trend or someone to make it for you).

Final thought, perhaps there's an "insurance opportunity" for some enterprising insurer? Glass replacement, whatever the cause, with no loss of NCB (as we have for cars). I'd hazard a guess that Mike and others might be willing to pay £1k a year for this.

Pete
 
petem said:
Incidentally, on the subject of 'frits', I see occasional posts reporting these are starting to come away. Unlikely to be functional issue but is a cosmetic one and the only remedy is new glass (if you can persuade Trend or someone to make it for you).
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What do you mean Pete? Surely you don't mean the fritting coming off the glass (it's printed onto the glass in ceramic ink) because that is important, not merely cosmetic. So what do you mean by *fritting coming away*?
 
petem said:
.......
Final thought, perhaps there's an "insurance opportunity" for some enterprising insurer? Glass replacement, whatever the cause, with no loss of NCB (as we have for cars). I'd hazard a guess that Mike and others might be willing to pay £1k a year for this.

Pete
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Yes I think many of us feel for Mike but I don't think 'windscreen' style insurance is going to work in this market as the quantity is extremely low and the price very high, if you read your car insurance you will find the windscreen cover is capped in most cases ie break the windscreen on your AM : DB4 and you may be in problems
 
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I find this a pretty disappointing stance from a major player in their market and think they have missed a trick. Of course it's not at all unusual for a company to adopt this type of 'cannot be our fault' attitude, especially when confident of their product, indeed there may be little or nothing wrong with the product but for them to state categorically it must have been the result of "x" is shortsighted imo as well as possibly specious.

There are 3 major factors at play as I see it. Being happy as a company (profit) Keeping the market happy/confident in their product. Keeping Deleted User happy.

1st factor:If the cause is not as they stated, which seems entirely plausible, then surely there is some value in them as a company (attempting to) understanding or knowing the cause, particularly as there is a trend towards ever larger areas of glass. I'd quite fancy knowing for sure, were I someone who mattered in Ferretti. It seems to me there could be a not insignificant potential future liability here. Then again, perhaps I'm totally clueless as to the lengths manufacturers go to in designing out this being an inherent fault.

2nd factor: If this thread, and any who hear of it, causes just 1 person to reconsider the Ferretti choice, they have scored an own goal (Perhaps not of their own making, but without them taking control we may never know)

3rd Factor: Deleted User. Given peoples natural propensity to inform others more readily when things go wrong than right, this may be significant as per factor 2.

The test and reputation of a company is often founded on how they deal with problems, for problems will surely occur from time to time. If Ferretti were to offer to investigate and replace as needed, on an at cost basis they would probably gain the respect of their hitherto happy customer as well as reassurance to all who would no doubt be informed of such by Deleted User. Perhaps the most significant 'win' would be their confirmation that it is a one off type failure assuming that can be determined - and if not a one off, allow them to head off a major future headache. In the grand scheme of things, I doubt a few £k matters to the company as much as a happy punter who then tells all his mates how happy he is cos Ferretti are so amazing.

Of course there are plenty of counter arguments to the above, age of the boat being a major one and another being setting a precedent for care beyond warranty, and I live in a fictional world where business actually takes more than a 12 month view. Oh, and pigs and unicorns inhabit the sky.
 
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The BA fleet (excluding A380) averages 10-20 y/o and yet I rarely, if ever, board thinking that if a bonded window fails at 35,000 ft it will be my own fault for choosing this carrier. So someone must know how to keep these things up together well beyond the manufacturer's warranty.
 
benjenbav said:
The BA fleet (excluding A380) averages 10-20 y/o and yet I rarely, if ever, board thinking that if a bonded window fails at 35,000 ft it will be my own fault for choosing this carrier. So someone must know how to keep these things up together well beyond the manufacturer's warranty.
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Yeah but the development costs for a Dreamliner were $32 billion. The development costs for a boat are nearer 32p.
 
benjenbav said:
The BA fleet (excluding A380) averages 10-20 y/o and yet I rarely, if ever, board thinking that if a bonded window fails at 35,000 ft it will be my own fault for choosing this carrier. So someone must know how to keep these things up together well beyond the manufacturer's warranty.
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You are right BJB, this is known technology, "borrowed" by the leisure marine industry. Not rocket science.
 
Deleted User said:
To be fair to Ferretti, the boat was 9yrs old when I first noticed these cracks. Unless anyone can tell me different I suspect that the first reaction of any manufacturer with a boat of this age would be to say not our problem. What I was hoping for, given the fact that I have bought 3 used Ferrettis in a row, was at least more interest in the issue and a bit of discount on the cost of the windows as a gesture of goodwill. I am under no illusion that Ferretti would treat this as a warranty issue
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I think you said they quoted £8,000 to replace the glass.

I'd say there was a healthy margin in there for Ferretti. It certainly doesn't look like a manufacturer saying wow, that shouldn't happen. Let's see what we can do to help you out here sir.

To be fair we don't know the full scope yet and hence my comment about keeping a close eye on things as they progress.

Henry :)
 
For both sides to crack I would guess there is something in the frame itself that's caused it, assuming both frames are identical. Something left over from the frames manufacture that shouldn't be there, a pimple on the metal or similar or a mounting screw a bit too long.
 
KevB said:
For both sides to crack I would guess there is something in the frame itself that's caused it, assuming both frames are identical. Something left over from the frames manufacture that shouldn't be there, a pimple on the metal or similar or a mounting screw a bit too long.
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There are no frames; it's bonded glass. Bonded straight onto a GRP flange
 
Mike, have you pulled the interior trim off round the windows to see if there's some component that's touching the edge glass at the location of the root of the crack? And to what degree has the apparently-degraded bonding failed - is there a gap or unadhered patch where you can slide some fine tool through?
 
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