CQR-----Delta--------Manson and price is an issue.

noelex said:
Once / if set the CQR seems as god as most at staying buried when swivelling around to a different direction of pull. I think the poor experience of some members with this aspect of its performance is related to a poor set, which is common with CQR anchors in hard substrates.
Click to expand...

I think that is pretty fair comment. We successfully used a 35lb CQR for years without failure that definitely could be ascribed to the anchor (see below), BUT, it could be difficult to set properly, on occasion taking perhaps three attempts, which, doing it all by hand, can be a bit of a drag (if you don't mind the unintended pun). That is why we opted for a 16kg Kobra 2 about three years ago which has the great advantage of setting first time on almost all occasions.

Re the CQR, I have wondered if a lot of the alleged problems that some people seem to have had with dragging arose because insufficient care had been taken to ensure that it had been properly laid and set. Of the ten years or so that we regularly deployed the CQR our yacht has dragged twice;
1. Craighouse Bay, Isle of Jura, in a F6, where the thick stalks of weed can be more than 5m long (sorry, can't name the variety). It is impossible to say with any certainty that another anchor would have been any better, but perhaps the weight distribution of the more modern anchors like the Kobra might have a better chance of reaching the bottom and digging in. Incidentally, on that occasion it took about 40 minutes just to remove the stuff from the anchor - heavy work after dragging about 50m;
2. Dunvegan Bay, Isle of Skye, again in a F6 (after two days at anchor in an 8/9), when the CQR came out with a huge chunk of seabed attached to it on all sides. The anchor did not fail.
 
Sgeir said:
we regularly deployed the CQR our yacht has dragged twice;
1. Craighouse Bay, Isle of Jura, in a F6, where the thick stalks of weed can be more than 5m long (sorry, can't name the variety). It is impossible to say with any certainty that another anchor would have been any better, but perhaps the weight distribution of the more modern anchors like the Kobra might have a better chance of reaching the bottom and digging in. Incidentally, on that occasion it took about 40 minutes just to remove the stuff from the anchor - heavy work after dragging about 50m;
2. Dunvegan Bay, Isle of Skye, again in a F6 (after two days at anchor in an 8/9), when the CQR came out with a huge chunk of seabed attached to it on all sides. The anchor did not fail.
Click to expand...

Hi Sgeir,
If you have a plough anchor, given enough force upon it due to its convex flukes it will generally tend to do just that.... plough, unless its hooked behind rock.

Modern generation anchors with concave flukes like the Manson, Spade and Rocna will generally tend to go deeper and not plough a furrow..

The one great advantage of modern generation anchors in my experience is that they tend to set quickly first time and will reset usually within their own length through a change of tide.

Having said that, the Kobra 2 seems to have one of the very best, if not THE best of reputations of all the plough type of anchors for generally good holding, but my friend with a Nicholson 38', will still not trust it to sleep on it.
 
Last edited:
Well, I am left with the problem now of what to buy.

Some studies show the Kobra to be ace but they also show the CQR to be good. Does the Kobra count as a new Gen anchor? The 3 that consistantly appear in the top are the spade, rocna and manson supreme. Of these the Rocna seems to have best all round performance with less variability between tests. The spade seems to be top overall for it's holding power although it sometimes has blips depending on the substrate. The manson is a good allrounder.

I was put off Rocna by the debacle of the past. There was a lot of heated debate on here and I did not like the confusion and lack of a clear response from the Rocna team. It left a bit of a bad taste and put me off any change to my anchor at the time so I stuck with the CQR. That said, if I went on evidence of all round performance alone they would be pretty near the top and may be my preferred choice. The problems seem to have been resolved, to an extent, such that the new anchors, without reference to the past, seem to speak for themselves in terms of test performance.

The spade could be got from a dealer in Scotland as I cruised up the coast and the manson is what is supplied locally in Belfast where I intend to get new chain.

So, is there anything else I should look into before making my choice? This is for a 28' wooden Honeybee that displaces 4.6 tonnes cruising up the west coast of Scotland.
 
I carry a Manson Supreme and a Delta and also have a big Bruce which I used to use as a mooring anchor for a smaller boat in Belfast Lough which I sometimes take if I anticipate strong tides. The Manson sets and holds well but is not infallible, it took us about 6 goes in the well ploughed mud at Tobermory. Not that much difference with the Delta which comes through the pulpit and stows easier but not enough to keep switching, I would be more likely to use it in tandem on a bad night but in W. Scotland it is easy to find shelter so not had to try it recently. I do not think there is a performance difference between Rocna and Manson but when I bought the Manson looked better made and was cheaper.
If I wus you I would buy a Spade, easier to handle and I am convinced is the best holding for a given weight.(though I have never owned one because at the time I thought the price was a rip off). I have used CQRs for decades and while I have had problems getting them to set once they are in they always held, I never experienced the failures to reset that others refer to, I think if it is well enough dug in it will turn round and just goes deeper. If you have to lie awake worrying, at that moment you would pay any price for a good nights sleep.
However the last two weeks we went from Crinan to Badachro and back without wetting the anchor once, but our excuse is a dog that enjoys the dinghy so much he bluffs a need to get ashore about every two hours.
As for purchasing, the only places outside the Clyde who hold stocks are Ardfern (Scotlands best marina chandlery by miles) who carry Rocna ( which they used to bring in from Dublin) and Delta, for a Manson Supreme off the shelf you would have to go over to Gael Force in Inverness but they send stuff to Mallaig, Stornaway or any fishing other major fishing port every week.
 
We've used a 14Kg Kobra happily for 10 years. Then, in May this year we dragged 3 times in 3 weeks. I think the problem was failure to reset in sudden wind shifts on a bottom with marginal holding.

Anyway, we've bought ourselves a 20Kg Spade (620 euros in Corsica) on the grounds that that is less than a new boat or staying in marinas at 50 a night.
 
Scotty_Tradewind said:
Hi Sgeir,
If you have a plough anchor...........
Click to expand...

Hi John, just to clear up any misunderstanding, it was the seabed that gave way at Dunvegan - the CQR's plough had dug in deep (rather than dig a furrow) - there was a very heavy and perfectly solid lump of sand/mud/shell that possibly would have been about two feet wide completely surrounding the plough. On the Craighouse incident, I rather doubt that any normal anchor would have set in a forest of stalks perhaps 4-5cm thick and 5-10m long, except perhaps, our heavy fisherman's anchor. We'll never know one way or the other, so no point in speculating. Anyway, on both occasions I do not think the CQR could be blamed for dragging. As above, we later opted for the Kobra 2 not because we were concerned about dragging but because it sets much more easily, and, usually, first time.

BTW, coming north again this year?
 
pmagowan said:
Well, I am left with the problem now of what to buy.

Some studies show the Kobra to be ace but they also show the CQR to be good. Does the Kobra count as a new Gen anchor? The 3 that consistantly appear in the top are the spade, rocna and manson supreme. Of these the Rocna seems to have best all round performance with less variability between tests. The spade seems to be top overall for it's holding power although it sometimes has blips depending on the substrate. The manson is a good allrounder.

I was put off Rocna by the debacle of the past. There was a lot of heated debate on here and I did not like the confusion and lack of a clear response from the Rocna team. It left a bit of a bad taste and put me off any change to my anchor at the time so I stuck with the CQR. That said, if I went on evidence of all round performance alone they would be pretty near the top and may be my preferred choice. The problems seem to have been resolved, to an extent, such that the new anchors, without reference to the past, seem to speak for themselves in terms of test performance.

The spade could be got from a dealer in Scotland as I cruised up the coast and the manson is what is supplied locally in Belfast where I intend to get new chain.

So, is there anything else I should look into before making my choice? This is for a 28' wooden Honeybee that displaces 4.6 tonnes cruising up the west coast of Scotland.
Click to expand...

PM, the difference in test results between the Supreme and the Rocna are pretty much rounding errors, so I would view them as equivalent. Both are good designs. The difference between them remains the grade of steel used. Here are the specs for the Manson shank: http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheet.aspx?matguid=6bc5c63c7b2e4e4798c67b0346d66dd7&ckck=1

And here is what Rocna has to say about their steel: http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/2011-oct-01-rocna-issues.php.

In this, Rocna acknowledges that their steel is 10% or so less robust than Manson's (actually it is the comparison between yield of 650 and yield of 750 or 15%), however, the thickness of the Supreme's shank is greater than the Rocna so the data derived conclusion is that the Rocna is 20% or so weaker than the Supreme. Additionally, Rocna's Chinese galvanizing remains of a lower quality than the Manson and that detail matters as well. So if you have to select between the two, I'd go with the Manson even if it was a bit more money.

However, comparing these hoop anchors to the Spade is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. All are fine designs, but the hoops on the Rocna and Supreme will prevent these anchors from burying as easily as the Spade. Yes, I know, Rocnas and Supremes will bury to some degree regardless of the hoop, but the Spade in the same strata will bury deeper, meaning its holding will necessarily be greater. You should also consider the Kobra, which is convex in design, but buries easily so will develop significant holding capacity in most seabeds - as the test results indicate.

Hope that helps.
 
Thanks guys. Currently sunning myself in Italy. Head is thinking about the spade, wallet is thinking about the Manson. I might pop in to Ardfern on the way up the coast and have a look.
 
stav said:
Thanks for the replies and thoughts. I have placed an order for a Manson from a chandler mentioned above. Hopefully they can deliver for the quoted price and with a bit of luck before half term! And I am looking forward to some more relaxed lunches ashore and perhaps only getting up once or twice during the night at anchor. All I have to do now is make the bow roller hold it......

Ought to say decided ultimately not that much more money and decided the slot in the top might be useful when anchoring amongst the rocks and in the French estuaries/rivers with moored boats.

Thanks again (:
Click to expand...

Just come across this thread. We also have a Conway and replaced a CQR with the Manson Supreme 6 years ago as neither the Spade nor the Rocna would fit over our bow roller. We now spend most of our time at anchor as we live aboard, currently in the Caribbean.

Very happy with it. Once set, we have total confidence in holding and sleep the night through. As with any anchor, it will not dig into rock - find another spot.

Enjoy
 
Last edited:
EdBeynon said:
I use a danforth and 30m of 8mm chain. I upgraded to 8mm chain last season due to rust and it being cheaper locally than 7mm. Not died yet.
Click to expand...

So do you suggest that the previous poster, living aboard in the Caribbean, should dump her Manson, and presumably about half her chain, on the basis that your Danforth and 30 metres are OK for you? Horses for courses, a Danforth is fine when coastal cruising not far from home but totally inadequate for liveaboard use.
 
I didn't suggest anything matey, just described my setup.

vyv_cox said:
So do you suggest that the previous poster, living aboard in the Caribbean, should dump her Manson, and presumably about half her chain, on the basis that your Danforth and 30 metres are OK for you? Horses for courses, a Danforth is fine when coastal cruising not far from home but totally inadequate for liveaboard use.
Click to expand...
 
vyv_cox said:
So do you suggest that the previous poster, living aboard in the Caribbean, should dump her Manson, and presumably about half her chain, on the basis that your Danforth and 30 metres are OK for you? Horses for courses, a Danforth is fine when coastal cruising not far from home but totally inadequate for liveaboard use.
Click to expand...



I do feel it is pretty rude to put words in my mouth like that though. All you can infer from my post is that I chose to spend my money increasing the mass per unit length of the catenary.
 
Last edited:
EdBeynon said:
I do feel it is pretty rude to put words in my mouth like that though. All you can infer from my post is that I chose to spend my money increasing the mass per unit length of the catenary.
Click to expand...

Except for the words 'not died yet'. Infers to me, at least, that all the previous discussion about the merits of technological improvement are worthless.
 
You are doing it again. If you choose to talk out of your arse kindly don't try to put the words in my mouth.



vyv_cox said:
Except for the words 'not died yet'. Infers to me, at least, that all the previous discussion about the merits of technological improvement are worthless.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top