CQR-----Delta--------Manson and price is an issue.

A brief update. I decided yesterday to go for a 14Kg Kobra II, on a boat a shade under 40 feet and around 8 tons. It sounded a little small at first when compared to the recommended Delta at 16Kg, but Plastimo suggest 10Kg up to 12 metres (that's us), 12Kg up to 13 metres, and 14Kg up to 14.5 metres, so is well within the suggested sizing. Also, given that in tests the Kobra has been shown to have significantly higher holding power than the Delta, it doesn't seem too outrageous to go 2Kg lighter.

We went out yesterday evening and gave it a try, dropping it through 5 metres of water into the mud off Hill Head. There was very little wind and about two knots of the flood tide still running. Once it was on the bottom, I deliberately paid out the chain faster than we were falling back on it. Once I had 15 metres of chain out, I watched and felt to see what would happen. The load came on the chain quite abruptly as the anchor set and the boat stopped on the spot. Whilst the boat moved forward and fell back again as she found her equilibrium with the chain, I felt no signs of the anchor moving whatsoever; not a bump, shudder or wobble. I then motored back on the anchor and having straightened the chain, couldn't get an inch further.

After dinner, we trickled gently up under motor to recover the chain which went tight and vertical as the bow arrived over the anchor, the windlass sounding like it had to grit its teeth slightly to break the anchor out. It arrived on the roller with equal amounts of mud inside both sides of the plough and quite a bit on the shank, suggesting it had dug in squarely and deeply.

Good initial signs, if based on a somewhat gentle first test.
 
Last edited:
Well, I have just ploughed through this thread (pun intended) and find it quite interesting. The last time I read an anchor thread was during the great Rochna debate of yesteryear. I use an old CQR on my 28' wooden honeybee and have had no problems so far but feel a little concerned by the general trend here. I don't find it hard to set and have never dragged even in quite severe conditions. I am going to replace my chain this season as it has rusted away and now I wonder if an anchor is required. I sail on the West coast of Scotland. I have never had trouble retrieving the CQR and maybe this is a bad sign. Perhaps I have been lucky and need a new anchor to remain safe or perhaps I should stick with the status quo since it has worked thus far.
 
pmagowan said:
Well, I have just ploughed through this thread (pun intended) and find it quite interesting. The last time I read an anchor thread was during the great Rochna debate of yesteryear. I use an old CQR on my 28' wooden honeybee and have had no problems so far but feel a little concerned by the general trend here. I don't find it hard to set and have never dragged even in quite severe conditions. I am going to replace my chain this season as it has rusted away and now I wonder if an anchor is required. I sail on the West coast of Scotland. I have never had trouble retrieving the CQR and maybe this is a bad sign. Perhaps I have been lucky and need a new anchor to remain safe or perhaps I should stick with the status quo since it has worked thus far.
Click to expand...

In the French tests the CQR was the most expensive and had the lowest break out weight. The cost of an anchor is normally peanuts compared to the value of the boat.
 
pmagowan said:
Well, I have just ploughed through this thread (pun intended) and find it quite interesting. The last time I read an anchor thread was during the great Rochna debate of yesteryear. I use an old CQR on my 28' wooden honeybee and have had no problems so far but feel a little concerned by the general trend here. I don't find it hard to set and have never dragged even in quite severe conditions. I am going to replace my chain this season as it has rusted away and now I wonder if an anchor is required. I sail on the West coast of Scotland. I have never had trouble retrieving the CQR and maybe this is a bad sign. Perhaps I have been lucky and need a new anchor to remain safe or perhaps I should stick with the status quo since it has worked thus far.
Click to expand...

Lots of people, many famous, make amazing voyages and rely on CQRs, there have been some recent cruises through the NW Passage and Sunstone made an impressive trek through the NW Pacific - and there has been an interesting reliance on CQRs. The worrying problem of CQRs is that if there is a change of wind direction or tide - and there is a need for them to 'self' reset - they can be found wanting. People making amazing voyages tend not to write about anchors - they are a bit mundane when you have just completed the NW Passage in a yacht, so maybe their experiences need looked at questioningly (in terms of anchor performance). With skill, care, luck and the right seabed - they can set easily. Anchor tests tend to want to set all anchors the same way - this is not actually valid, different anchors need different setting techniques. Its that change of orientation that lets them down. If you feel your anchor works and you sleep soundly, I would not worry. If you worry - I'd consider the wealth of data available and buy something else, on a 'cost per night' basis anchors are very cheap.

Jonathan
 
Y'know, sometimes - just sometimes - there's a gleam of common sense through the swirling clouds of cant and confusion that are our 'anchor threads'...... :cool:
 
oldbilbo said:
Y'know, sometimes - just sometimes - there's a gleam of common sense through the swirling clouds of cant and confusion that are our 'anchor threads'...... :cool:
Click to expand...

Where is it, can you point it out :)

I am hopefully going to get some new chain tomorrow as the old stuff crumbles in the hand. I might browse the odd anchor on the way up the west coast of Scotland later in the month but only for academic purposes of course!
 
pbo has had a recent article by those multi talented liveaboards the Chandlers who

recently rebuilt their bow stem/roller assembly. It does give a glimpse of a major problem

with a new gen' anchor, i.e. will it fit?

I have a s/s steel bowsprit and since filming the clip below I've cut away from the sides the

thin strips of teak and the cross planks of teak and ground off the s/s thin shelves that the

teak sat on to allow the anchor to come up through the bowsprit and onto the roller a little

more easily.

Getting my anchor passed the bobstay beneath the bow sprit is yet another problem but

that obviously exists with any type of anchor.


http://s725.photobucket.com/user/jo...nshelteredbuttherewasweed.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0
 
Last edited:
Simondjuk said:
Whilst I agree in part with the poster who stated that an anchor can never be too good, I would temper the statement by adding that it only needs to be good enough, plus a bit. .
Click to expand...

Hi Simondjuk,

this may be acceptable for you but "needs to be enough, plus a bit" is not measureable

therefore cannot be quantified.

The problem for me is that whilst sleeping on the anchor in remote places and occasionally in

slightly unfavourable conditions, I really prefer to lessen the risk.

Therefore I've chosen to spend more than the average amount on an anchor that through my

own experience and others I can really trust. Plus the fact I have and often use 65m of chain

and when suitable a large chum to counter a swell.

For extra assurance but not a guaranteed insurance, I've two anchor alarms that I can set.

Safe anchoring,
S. :)
 
I too have gone with a Kobra to replace my 44lb genuine CQR, but I have gone 2 sizes up - 20kg for a 40' yacht, albeit she's probably 12-13 tons in cruising mode. Very little use so far, but what we have done has been fine. We have 50m of 10mm chain, which I will probably increase to 80m with 40 of warp before we head off for serious cruising.

Neil
 
After the apparent concern expressed on this forum over bendy anchors and the costs incurred in using high tensile steel for the shanks of some anchors it must be most frustrating for these (quality) anchor makers to see so many buying anchors with bendy steel, or to no known steel specification.

It seems that a segment of the yachting population endorse low specification safety products and yet again:

As a proportion of yacht cost and the value they secure, even good anchors are cheap

and

On a cost per night basis quality anchors are also cheap

Do people buy lifejackets, harnesses on the basis of lowest cost as well?

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
After the apparent concern expressed on this forum over bendy anchors and the costs incurred in using high tensile steel for the shanks of some anchors it must be most frustrating for these (quality) anchor makers to see so many buying anchors with bendy steel, or to no known steel specification.

It seems that a segment of the yachting population endorse low specification safety products and yet again:

As a proportion of yacht cost and the value they secure, even good anchors are cheap

and

On a cost per night basis quality anchors are also cheap

Do people buy lifejackets, harnesses on the basis of lowest cost as well?

Jonathan
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any mention of Kobra shanks bending during the tests in which they displayed holding power second only to the Manson Supreme. If it's bendy and it holds, surely it will bend?

For me, the Kobra is a lot better than the pattern CQR my boat came with, fits on the roller, has been shown to be the close second best available in terms of holding power, has been shown to be the best available in terms of setting and self-resetting, and cost £99 instead of £350.

I'm not sure where you think I've compromised. I could have paid three and a half times as much and got nothing at all more for another £250 of my cash, except the fun of having to modify the bow roller and pulpit.
 
Last edited:
Simondjuk said:
I haven't seen any mention of Kobra shanks bending during the tests in which they displayed holding power second only to the Manson Supreme. If it's bendy and it holds, surely it will bend?

For me, the Kobra is a lot better than the pattern CQR my boat came with, fits on the roller, has been shown to be the close second best available in terms of holding power, has been shown to be the best available in terms of setting and self-resetting, and cost £99 instead of £350.

I'm not sure where you think I've compromised. I could have paid three and a half times as much and got nothing at all more for another £250 of my cash, except the fun of having to modify the bow roller and pulpit.
Click to expand...

My experiences exactly, we once got it jammed under a rock and I thought it was just dug in very well so used more engine power than I should have to try and get it out, unsuccessfully. Eventually dived down to sort it out. Anchor was not bent or damaged by my abuse of it.
 
Sleep well and soundly, but I would not buy stainless (anything) unless the quality was specified, I would not buy cordage without knowing the fibre from which it was made and, maybe I'm a bit paranoid, I would not buy anchor chain unless it met specific standards - like minimal G3 - so why buy an anchor without a specification.

Why do you think the anchor is cheap?

Surely you are not suggesting that 'another anchor' made in China, which costs much more, is simply profiteering! You get what you pay for.

Time will tell, but its not an experiment in which I would particpate.

Good luck and best wishes

Jonathan
 
Having successfully used a CQR for the last 14 years I'd suspect that what you have is a copy. My previous one was a cast copy and was utterly useless for an anchor.

I'd suggest a Delta (stows and self launches better than a CQR and doesn't have the major weakness of a CQR of lying on its back waving its flukes in the air.

The other anchor for which I have a profound respect is the Bugel (of which the Manson is an overpriced copy) - look @ SVB Spezialversand GmbH, in Bremen - their prices are reasonable, their service incomparably better than UK chandlers and they don't charge your card as soon as they enter the order.

Unfortunately no anchor will make up for lack of anchoring expertise - for which continual practice is the only answer - I'm lucky because I anchor for about 120 days a season - far safer than any mooring.

Happy anchoring!!!
 
I wonder if much of the failure of CQR anchors is down to the technique required to get them to set. It seems that most of the new generationof achors are designed in such a way as they easily hit the bottom at the right angle or flip over. So far I have not had problems getting my CQR to set but I must say I am slightly concerned by the results it gets in tests and I wonder if I have just not tested it hard enough. It has never dragged in some serious conditions but I can't tell if it was a close thing. Certainly the footage of the next gen anchors setting is quite convincing but then I am used to biased information and thus am a bit skeptical. Some of the scientific tests appear conclusive but once again they do not match my experience of a CQR working well. I am going to buy new chain for the boat and I may have a look at the anchors. The local dealer does manson supreme and we will sail past the spade dealer in Scotland. It would be nice to be able to do a test drive.
 
pmagowan said:
I wonder if much of the failure of CQR anchors is down to the technique required to get them to set.
Click to expand...
Technique in setting has little relevance when you are sleeping in an anchorage where either the tide turns or a strong wind arrives from a different quadrant to the one previously lying to. The anchor breaks out and has to reset itself. A new generation anchor does that in a short distance. A CQR does not have the same attribute in many cases.

Some of the scientific tests appear conclusive but once again they do not match my experience of a CQR working well.
Click to expand...
Dare I remind you of your own argument elsewhere with reference to those who have witnessed water divining and would not accept that their personal experience was not of sufficient scientific robustness?
 
You know I thought that might come back to bite me as I wrote it! I am well aware of the scientific inadequacies of my study but then the 'scientific', magazine funded, studies are not exactly rigorous. They provide some information, which I am taking into account but them testing a CQR 3 or 4 times is not that robust. In comparisson I have tested it hundreds of times although obviously not in a comparitive manner or with any scientific intention. I could of course be biased but then I like a new toy and am already tending towards a new anchor as I have made clear so my bias would likely be in the other direction. I do sometimes wonder also about the fact that the magazines seem to always recommend a new and expensive model such as the type advertising in their pages.

I understand the problem with setting on a turning tide etc but have never had that problem. All the storms I have anchored in have been stronger than the tide and thus the boat has pointed into the wind and kept her position. Perhaps this is why I don't have an experience of dragging in a storm. I might have a dive to see what the anchor looks like next time I set it in good conditions.

I am quite happy to accept any scientific evidence but it appears that it is somewhat lacking in this area. That said, the consensus seems to point towards the new generation anchors and if I do replace mine it will likely be with either a Manson, Rocna or Spade. As said, I would very much like to do a test run with some of them to see how they work in my situation. I don't keep the anchor on the bow roller but tied down on the foredeck. My boat is wooden and has a short bow roller so a typical anchor would cause damage if left there. I also do not think the pullpit would like the extra wight if I was to hang it there although it would be more convenient. At 28' we are quite small and our bow does get awash quite often.
 
A CQR does require much more care to set. Unfortunatly in some substrates it just does not set. A a modern anchor will set without any problem in the same conditions.

Those that have not experienced this kind of bottom find this difficult to believe. I think you you just have to witness this for youself to become converted.

Once / if set the CQR seems as god as most at staying buried when swivelling around to a different direction of pull. I think the poor experience of some members with this aspect of its performance is related to a poor set, which is common with CQR anchors in hard substrates.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top