Courtesy flags - where do you have to wear one?

[[70521]]

It's really the "no-English" flag, because England was also a Celtic nation until the Anglo-Saxons invaded, and if invasion is enough to stop it, then Wales was invaded as well.

I've never heard it described as that. I must find out more about the English Celts.

 

[Refueler]

I've never heard it described as that. I must find out more about the English Celts.

I think the trouble here is that the original term Celts has migrated into the later term Celtic ....

 

[Dan Tribe]

Mike Peyton had it covered.

 

[black mercury]

My first trip to the Isle of Man was rather unexpected and I didn't have a courtesy flag with me. The Peel harbourmaster pointed out in a very friendly way that I needed one and I ended up flying a Manx flag made for sandcastles for a week.

And its easy to get it the wrong way up.

 

[TSB240]

I found out how you could get a much warmer welcome when visiting Brittany. I had the Breton Flag uppermost with the national flag in second place and the 8 nations celtic union flag as third.
Many smiles, pointing and thumbs up even from the local armed border gendarmes.

I have yet to find out if doing the same for Gallicia or Asturias in Spain would have the same outcome.

The only visiting flag I dont have for the Irish sea is for NI where it could get awkward if you forget to change after visiting Eire!

I really have no need to fly the flag of St George when visiting our fellow celts in Cornwall. The Kernow will do.

 

[Graham376]

The only time I ever got into trouble was when I went into Gibraltar. As I was flying the red ensign I did not need a courtesy flag, but unfortunately not having to put another courtesy flag up forgot to take the Spanish Courtesy flag down. The marine staff pointed it out in a very aggressive manner, shouting words to the effect of 'get that rag down'. My mistake but still surprised at emotion behind the instruction

+1

Same happened to us in Marina Bay.

Portuguese are pretty keen on courtesy flag and ensign flown 24/7.

 

[Blue Sunray]

The only time I ever got into trouble was when I went into Gibraltar. As I was flying the red ensign I did not need a courtesy flag, but unfortunately not having to put another courtesy flag up forgot to take the Spanish Courtesy flag down. The marine staff pointed it out in a very aggressive manner, shouting words to the effect of 'get that rag down'. My mistake but still surprised at emotion behind the instruction

I'm surprised that you were surprised, but if you really want to live dangerously try leaving up the Turkish courtesy flag on entering Greece (or Cyprus) or visa versa.

 

[Rappey]

Reeds flag etiquette section does not have force of law. Anyway, I don't believe it says what you claimed.

Obviously, that's why it's etiquette which is not the same as law. How do you not understand that ? Etiquette is a combination of law and tradition.
If you spent less time trying to tell me I'm wrong on various posts and spent more time actually looking up facts first you might learn something?
So yet again I will attempt to explain what you fail to understand.
The union jack, Welsh dragon, cross of St Andrew and eu flags are primarily land flags therfore must not be flown at sea by yachtsmen.
Cross of St George is the flag of an admiral and cannot legally be flown by anyone else.
A red ensign is the appropriate flag for a uk registered vessel and flying anything else is a violation of British and international law.

 

[johnalison]

One aspect of displaying a courtesy flag is that it makes it easy to spot visiting boats, even in a crowded marina. I imagine that this is part of the reason why some countries insist that they are worn.

 

[Rappey]

Care to produce a law codifying these "rules"? The Merchant Shipping Act won't help you,

Funny that as it's you who is unclear about the merchant shipping act. It will help you if you actually read it .
Merchant shipping act 1995. Part 1, section 4.

 

[[163233]]

I nearly got fined by harbour police after sailing into a Tunisian port...
The flag should be flown from entering their waters, whilst in port and only struck when their territorial waters have been exited.

This is of course the problem, it's more about the opinion of the local police than any special laws or national agreements.
I think Noonsite is probably the best for information on how to enter countries.

Some countries such as China will watch you hoist / lower the flag and can get upset if it touches the deck ... seriously !!

Awkward for me, I have no flag halyards so tie the flag to the inner shrouds, no-one has complained so far.
I might not get to China though.

The only time I ever got into trouble was when I went into Gibraltar. As I was flying the red ensign I did not need a courtesy flag..

Awkward note for foreigners, is that the courtesy flag is the ensign, so in Gib are you expected to have it defaced?

A couple of years ago the GC in Empuriabrava were pulling people for flying the "wrong" Spanish courtesy flag, without the crown in the middle.

The ensign is the right flag, which is the Spanish flag without the arms, but, I bought mine in the IoW and got the crown, no-one has mentioned it.
It flies 24/7 and if the end starts to fray it will be replaced, The locals don't worry so much about replacement which leads me to think that they don't worry a lot about flags.

...The Peel harbourmaster pointed out in a very friendly way that I needed one and I ended up flying a Manx flag made for sandcastles for a week.

I didn't have one and no-one mentioned it, but my IoM flag is a sandcastle type too.
Better to buy it in the place you arrive I think, at the least you get a souvenir.

I've never heard it described as that. I must find out more about the English Celts.

The Celtic realm (not as contiguous as an empire) covered most of the west coast of Europe and certainly all of Britain.
The Anglo-Saxon influence was relatively late, but to claim in England that one man is a Celt and another is an Anglo-Saxon is partly racist and partly gibberish.
Rheged - Wikipedia

I think the trouble here is that the original term Celts has migrated into the later term Celtic ....

That's just grammar, they are celts, their stuff is celtic.

 

[johnalison]

That's just grammar, they are celts, their stuff is celtic.

My understanding, which comes with all the authority of a TV programme, is that the Celts never came to Britain but their culture did. People who call themselves Celts are probably just remnants of the Beaker people who adopted Celtic culture.

 

[[163233]]

My understanding, which comes with all the authority of a TV programme, is that the Celts never came to Britain but their culture did. People who call themselves Celts are probably just remnants of the Beaker people who adopted Celtic culture.

I think that was what I was getting at with "The Celtic realm (not as contiguous as an empire)".

 

[escapism]

My impression is that north European countries tend to take flag etiquette quite seriously compared to the UK. Apart from insisting on courtesy flags, there is the ritual of sunrise/sunset raising/lowering of ensigns which the Dutch and Scandinavians seem to enjoy, quite challenging in a Baltic summer. Marinas seem to like to keep their hoists of visiting nationalities up to the minute. We try to fit in with whatever is expected, but leave the ensign as 'in the UK it means the boat is in commission'. No idea if this is true or not.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Obviously, that's why it's etiquette which is not the same as law. How do you not understand that ?
Etiquette is a combination of law and tradition.

You wrote "You also can't fly a st George, Welsh or Scottish flag from your vessel as that is reserved for admirals. Doing so can lead to arrest, confiscation of the vessel and a large fine." Nobody arrests, fines or confiscates boats for breaches of tradition so I think it's fair to ask you what law you think covers this.

If you spent less time trying to tell me I'm wrong on various posts and spent more time actually looking up facts first you might learn something?

If is unreasonable to make claims and then expect your readers to check whether they are true.

So yet again I will attempt to explain what you fail to understand.
The union jack, Welsh dragon, cross of St Andrew and eu flags are primarily land flags therfore must not be flown at sea by yachtsmen.

You forgot three important words. To quote the RYA: "The Union Jack, Welsh Dragon, the Crosses of St Andrew, St George and St Patrick and the EU flag are primarily land flags and must not be flown at sea as an Ensign by cruising yachtsmen."

Cross of St George is the flag of an admiral and cannot legally be flown by anyone else.

Under what law?

A red ensign is the appropriate flag for a uk registered vessel and flying anything else is a violation of British and international law.

Again, which British law do you think mandates that? It's not the Merchant Shipping Act, which prohibits only the flying of the wrong ensign or "distinctive national colours".

Funny that as it's you who is unclear about the merchant shipping act. It will help you if you actually read it .
Merchant shipping act 1995. Part 1, section 4.

That section only covers flying the wrong ensign or colours. It does not cover flying flags which are not ensigns or colours. Confiscation of the vessel is not a listed penalty. Furthermore if you care to check Section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (S24, as amended} you will see the circumstance under which arrests can be made.

 

[Rappey]

Deleted. Really can't be bothered

 

[Kukri]

“Courtesy flags - where do you have to wear one?”

At the starboard lower spreader.

 

[Petronella]

Interestingly here in Grenada where boats arriving have to be in quarantine for 14 days they are supposed to fly the Lima or quarantine flag (opposing black and yellow quarters). However practically no one carries that flag so a normal yellow Q flag is deemed acceptable.

 

[GTom]

Interestingly here in Grenada where boats arriving have to be in quarantine for 14 days they are supposed to fly the Lima or quarantine flag (opposing black and yellow quarters). However practically no one carries that flag so a normal yellow Q flag is deemed acceptable.

Can't find it but seen the Lima being asked for somewhere around the British Isles too during the COVID misery...

 

[Refueler]

It is a legal requirement for me to fly a South African ensign (same as SA flag) when ever I leave port as my vessel is registered on the South Africa register of ships. This is staten in the our Ship Registration act.

I have a friend who flies the blue peter whenever he leaves his mooring in his 26 ft sailboat.

I was warned by Estonian Border Guards when I was not flying Estonian ensign on my Estonian race boat when sailing out of Pirita harbour.