Couple of anchory type questions, sorry.

[Murv]

Firstly, I've been told I need a spare anchor. Do you carry one?
Secondly, I currently have 15m of 8mm chain, and I've literally just bought an extra 20m of 8mm chain to extend it. I did (and still do) have 50m of 3 strand nylon rope which I was going to make up the length of rode with until I bought the chain.
The 20m of chain I've just bought is very heavy. In fact, I'm slightly nervous of dumping it in the chain locker as I'm fairly convinced the boat will just dissapear nose first into the depths so I don't really want to add any extra weight in there.
If I buy a second anchor, should I cut 5m off chain off the 20m length and add that to the nylon for the emergency anchor? or, is there an easier way of getting the emergency anchor to hold on a rope rode. Maybe with an angel or something?
I could buy an extra 5m of chain to add to the nylon, but an very reluctant to put any more weight over the front. However, is that the best thing to do?

Boat: 22' cabin cruiser, weight overall is probably around 2.5T with single engine.
Primary anchoring areas will be shallow (Medway estuary) and mud bottom.
I do carry an auxiliary, but, only 3.3hp so it will only really push me to an area of safety rather than getting me back in.

EDIT: I don't have an electric windlass so have no constraints with connections/rode types etc

 

[Canopy Locked]

It could be considered "good practice" to have a 2nd anchor - charter boats are required to carry 2. However since I only anchor to fish or (in an emergency) would anchor to stop drifting if the engine quit, I only carry 1 anchor. Furthermore I know all the text says X meters of chain and 3x depth and so on.... which is fine if you're anchoring overnight.... but overkill on a small boat stooping for a spot of fishing.

I use 3 x rebars, that have been bent into a grapnel and welded together (very cheap anchor) - it has around 3m chain and the rest is rope. I happily anchor in 100ft and it holds me fine. Granted we don't have massive tides - this probably would not work in the Bristol channel.

My boat is a 24ft merry fisher.

IMHO I would ditch most of your chain!

 

[kashurst]

From what you describe, I would keep the new 20m chain intact and fit it in the bow locker. This would give you an anchor depth @ 4- 5 m in good conditions - obviously depends on anchor type, size and sea bed etc. I would cut the older 15m chain and put 5m of that on a spare anchor.
A spare anchor is a good idea. In the past I have lost an anchor as well (stupidity) and once had to let the anchor and chain all out and cut the chain when the windlass jammed.(I did recover it later though) So I carry a spare with chain and rope just in case. I don't know how common it is to have a spare. If you are going to get a spare might be a good idea to get a different type than the main anchor as different designs work better in different sea beds and fortress style anchors store pretty flat and don't take up much space.

 

[lynall]

My bow locker has roughly 100 foot of I think 6 or 8mm chain., virtually same boat, no spare anchor, never gave it any thought tbh!
But do carry a hacksaw and spare blade

 

[Searush]

Two anchors is common on raggies, but I haven't used my kedge for years. The theory is that if you have to clear out of an anchorage in a hurry (weather turns nasty say) and you can't recover the anchor (possibly fouled) then you can buoy & leave it and still have an anchor to use in a more sheltered spot. Not sure that is really a likely scenario for day tripping out of a Marina tho.

In the past I have tried fore & aft moors in narrow channels with limited success, but in extremis I have used both anchors in tandem & that was successful when either anchor alone probably would not have held. But then, I anchor out quite a lot & not always in the most sheltered spots.

 

[MapisM]

If I buy a second anchor, should I cut 5m off chain off the 20m length and add that to the nylon for the emergency anchor?

Yep, I think that's good enough for a spare anchor, in a 22'/2.5T boat.
Actually, I would have thought that also the existing 15m of chain + 50m rope in the main anchor should be plenty.
Why were you thinking to add 20m of chain, have you ever had problems with your current ground tackle?

 

[maverickofpoole]

How do you manage to recover all that chain by hand? you must be related to Popeye. I would nearly agree with Rob's setup for a small boat used primarily for fishing and day boating except the grapnel wouldn't hold very well in mud. I have an 8 metre boat with about 8 metres of 8mm chain spliced to 140 metres of 14mm multiplait with a 6 kilo Delta anchor, I would suggest that 12mm rode would be sufficient for your boat. I anchor in waters 30-120' deep and have no problems in holding bottom. To retrieve we use the Alderney ring/buoy method, this saves on muscle power. The only thing you would have to be aware of if going from all chain to part chain is that some anchors do not set in mud so a quick Google will provide you with the most suitable anchors (Delta fairs well).

I don't have a spare anchor on board but have thought on several occasions I should, not on safety grounds but to stop the boat swinging when fishing in shallow water.

Martin

 

[maverickofpoole]

As an after thought I would suggest if using all chain you have a small section of rope at the end of the chain connecting to the boat, if you need to move quickly rope is easier to cut than chain. Also a buoy on the end would be useful to aid finding the anchor again for recovery.

 

[Murv]

Fantastic, many thanks all. Seems the spare anchor isn't so popular then!
I'll keep an eye out for one, but move it down the priority list.
I haven't actually anchored in anger yet (very new to boating) but just trying to get everything right first. Everyone has told me I need to anchor on chain, the 50' of 3 strand just sits in the boat so it could be added to the chain if required, or used as a tow rope etc.
I wanted to extend the 15m of chain as it wouldn't be enough to anchor in some of the deeper holes, even 100' of chain may be a bit tight but I could at least extend with the 3 strand.

I suppose the thing to do is just try it our for this Year, with the 35m of chain, and see how it goes? If the anchor does foul and needs to be cut free, we can just return to the marina. Only risk then would be engine failure after losing the anchor, but just how paranoid do you need to be?!

 

[MapisM]

I wanted to extend the 15m of chain as it wouldn't be enough to anchor in some of the deeper holes

Agreed, but when I asked in my previous post why you wanted to add more chain, i assumed you always used it together with those 50m of nylon.
Fwiw, on a boat the size of yours, and no electric windlass, I'd rather have 15m chain+50m rope than 35m chain any day of the week.

 

[Murv]

Ak, OK, thanks for that. The extra chain purchase may have been an expensive mistake then! I guess with all the "chain only" rode recommendations, people are assuming an electric windlass as standard.

 

[Searush]

I have 30m of chain on a 35lb CQR for a 32', 7 ton boat and I regularly handle it manually and I am a fat old 67 yo.

It can sometimes be hard to get the chain in hand over hand if the wind is blowing hard, but by using the waves (gather on the dip, grip hard on the up) and using my legs to lift (keep back straight) it is possible. Without any wind or tide, it's easy enough to hand over hand & I do have a manual windlass, but it is just to slow to bother with unless I am knackered & the weather is bad.

The g-kids love the windlass tho & it makes it easy for them to weigh anchor for me.

 

[RogerRat]

Boat: 22' cabin cruiser, weight overall is probably around 2.5T with single engine.
Primary anchoring areas will be shallow (Medway estuary) and mud bottom.
I do carry an auxiliary, but, only 3.3hp so it will only really push me to an area of safety rather than getting me back in.

EDIT: I don't have an electric windlass so have no constraints with connections/rode types etc

Hi, the 8mm chain is actually quite large and therefore heavy for 22 footer, 6mm is more common. This is not a bad thing though as you can use less of it, especially as you don't have a windlass.

Anchoring overnight is a different deal to stopping on a fishing mark. Still, when there's no fish biting, it's nice to be able to move easily. Make sure that if you do stay with chain all the way that there is a rope, bitter end tied to the boat. If your anchor fouls and the wind gets up, it's almost impossible hacksaw through when the boat is getting a beating!

Ok, so rope, chain or both. On your size of boat 15metres of 8mm chain is plenty, that will hold you with almost any anchor in mud. Bladed anchors like Danforth are fine and Delta and Bruce types will hold well too. If you do add the extra chain you've bought then don't forget to get an 8mm joining link. There's nothing wrong with having more chain.

If you going to be fishing over rocks then I would avoid the Bruce. Splice your rope to chain with any eye splice unless you decide to add a windlass later then rope size and choice of splice will matter.

Scope should be at 5 x times depth really as you're using rope. The chain is just a bonus and will give you better holding and a real safety margin. As mentioned above by Maverick of Poole..

"Retrieve we use the Alderney ring/buoy method, this saves on muscle power".

If you're not sure about this method look it up, it's the only way to go if you're anchoring in any depth with no windlass. Remember though that you need a reasonably powerful boat to give enough speed to pull the anchor up and the chain into the ring under the buoy. :encouragement:

RR

 

[Murv]

Superb, thanks for the extra info, both

You know, I could've sworn that my existing chain was 8mm close link. But, took the boat out for a very brief run yesterday and I was quite surprised to see just how small the existing chain is in comparison to the new 8mm chain. So, checked it, and it's 5mm... No wonder the new stuff is so crushingly heavy. (Why oh why don't I check these things first???)
So, I have 15m of 5mm, long link chain and 20m of 8mm close link chain. So, with that in mind, would the best thing be to add the 20m of 8mm to the anchor, then a joining link, then the 5mm chain with the 50m of nylon as extra backup?
The chain will be secured (as it currently is) to the boat with a short length of rope, I've been fishing on a small boat just off the edge of a reef crest when the weather suddenly turned and the anchor fouled. Even swiping the through the rope with a machete feels slow when the bow doesn't rise with the waves!!

I've read up on the Alderney method before, it certainly does sound the way to go. I think though that I need to get a bit of experience in with just fishing at anchor first, the thing that really worries me is the prospect of running the prop with rope or chain in the water.
The boat has 130-140hp so should be fine doing it, I just want to gain a bit of boating experience first.

Just to add, I wanted to leave the anchor type out as it seems to cause a fair bit of debate and everyone seems to have their favorite! but, I'm using a Danforth as it will only be mud that I anchor over, at least for the foreseeable future.
Also, I won't add a windlass to this boat. It's my first boat and just a tester really, so it's not impossible that it will be traded for something a little larger at some point in the future. so, I'm quite happy hauling manually for now, one less thing to go wrong, too

 

[MapisM]

So, I have 15m of 5mm, long link chain and 20m of 8mm close link chain. So, with that in mind, would the best thing be to add the 20m of 8mm to the anchor, then a joining link, then the 5mm chain with the 50m of nylon as extra backup?

I'd rather use the 20m/8mm chain with the 50m nylon, that's more than enough.
You might use the smaller chain for the spare hook. Btw, are you sure it isn't 6mm? 5mm is rather unusual.
Not that it really matters, anyway.

 

[Murv]

Sounds a good plan, I shall do that then, thank you.
I have it recorded in the log as 5mm, but I may well have measured it crudely with a tape before I bought my calipers so it could well be 6mm.

 

[Nick_H]

I'd rather use the 20m/8mm chain with the 50m nylon, that's more than enough.

Agreed, or for daytime fishing just use 10m of chain, 50m rope, and haul it by hand. The Alderney method is interesting, and I hadn't come across it before, but a 6kg anchor, 10m of chain and some rope should be easy to haul.

edit: motor forward first of course to take the load off the rope

 

[Searush]

Rope rode is not a problem with the props turning as long as you don't let the rope trail out after pulling it in. It's simply a matter of keeping the rope at the front & the props at the back! :encouragement: Oh, & not doing pirouettes round the anchor too I suppose.

 

[RogerRat]

Sounds a good plan, I shall do that then, thank you.
I have it recorded in the log as 5mm, but I may well have measured it crudely with a tape before I bought my calipers so it could well be 6mm.

I agree with MM. 5mm is very small and more often found on dinghy and tender's folding anchors. Your boat is more likely to have 6mm. Anyway, not important.
8mm is great and because of that you can use less rope. BUT make sure it a sinking rope, preferably nylon, sinks well and has good stretching ability, so less snatch. Try to give your self as much scope (X depth) as possible, especially with rope. With a good curve, 'catenary' as the text books and sea dogs call it, you will get a more horzontal pull on the anchor and much better holding.

Don't add any more chain, you have plenty as your self hauling and you boat is light enough to stay in place in all the conditions that you'll WANT to stay out there.:ambivalence:

If you're not sure about the Alderney ring, look it up, or better yet try and a get a ride out with someone that uses it. It's a bit confusing the first time you see it but really, it's very simple when used on a boat like yours. You have plenty of grunt in your outboard.

Btw. The Danforth is fine, well proven, good holding in sand and mud and stows very easily on a smaller boat.

Enjoy! :encouragement:

RR

 

[maverickofpoole]

Retrieving your anchor with the Alderney method is relatively easy and straight forward (well not quite you kinda go around )however it can be scary when you're not used to it. the following vid explains how it works and some of the pitfalls. The best way to learn is definitely go with someone who is experienced but once learned you'll wonder what all the fuss is about :encouragement: