Could it get much worse

[Peppermint]

January's YM I mean.

If you think that the "Gear Test" of a Radar Target Enhancer or the palid reprise of brochures that is the 4 pages on chart plotters adds anything to our knowledge. If you think that the advice for the slowboat syndrome in A Question of Seamanship is the best way forward. If you think this dross where some surveyor bumbles around a few boats and goes on about beds then you'll no doubt disagree with me but I think this is awful rubbish.



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[Strathglass]

Can it?

I subscribe to YM and although my local village store has it on it's shelf. My copy has not arrived yet.
It was noticable thet the LBS new product reviews on both PBO and YW were not only for identical products but the text had obviously been taken from the same publicity brochure.

I wonder if I am in for a similar diet of journalistic flair when the YM eventually arrives.

Iain

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[Birdseye]

Re: Can it?

" It was noticable thet the LBS new product reviews on both PBO and YW were not only for identical products but the text had obviously been taken from the same publicity brochure." Thats been the case for years, and it also affects YW and Sailing Today.

The practical solution is to flick through the pages of them all at WHS, and only buy the one which has something worth keeping in it. I do that, and most months read all four and never buy one.

Maybe this is what you get when you have prof journalists rather than sailing enthusiasts writing the articles. The way these empires work, the next Ed for PBO could well be the current Ed of Woodworking monthly. You dont need to know what you're writing about, you just need to know how to write.

Mind you, a little bird tells me that you're in for a change, and PBO might be moving a bit more towards MBM rather than YM.

Incidentally, this problem is not unique to boating. Try the motorbike mags - every month the same mags test the same new sportsbike. And the weekly newspaper MCN (More Crap than News) does the same thing as a scoop / revelation etc

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[pvb]

Easy answer...

Stop buying it - they'll get the message.

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[Peppermint]

Re: Sombodies just got me to read

Decembers "A Question of Seamanship"

Oh! How we laughed.

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[kimhollamby]

So what am I?

<font size=1>Maybe this is what you get when you have prof journalists rather than sailing enthusiasts writing the articles. The way these empires work, the next Ed for PBO could well be the current Ed of Woodworking monthly. You dont need to know what you're writing about, you just need to know how to write.</font size=1>

I'm not going to question the subjective views made here; they are yours to make and the YM crew's to consider and act upon or not according to their own judgements.

However I do get a little fed up with this supposed theory that everyone else but us knows what is going on a) out there and b) in here.

What am I? Professional journalist or sailing enthusiast?

Please tell me specifically as a starting point. You answer...and then I will reply.

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[Peppermint]

Re: Evolution

of YM shows that it used to be run by sailors who can write but now it is more writers who can sail.

This is not to doubt the enthusiasm of your sailors or your writers but the mag is more commercial.

Do you think that JDS would have edited January 2004's mag?

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[ccscott49]

Re: So what am I?

I think you are a proffesional, whether on the water or in the office. I also think that if some people do not like the content, then they shouldn`t buy it (the magazines) It`s their choice. I get enough out of the magazines to still buy them when I can, so that`s what I will do.

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[Peppermint]

Re: Quite right

I slung my hand in a couple of years ago, having got a bit sick of the charter brochure feel of the thing, but was given subscriptions as gifts.

I've cancelled my subscription this morning, purely based on the way YM has gone.

Some of the "expert advice" and "testing" is very poor.

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[bob_tyler]

Re: Evolution

"Do you think that JDS would have edited January 2004's mag?"

Yes, he would have done. As both an experienced seaman and an experienced journalist but it might have looked rather different. Times change, some like progress others would prefer to remain static.

Any magazine has to change with the times and in doing so may offend and lose some older readers but will bring in new ones. It is the editor's job to see that the number of new buyers exceeds the loss of older buyers. Otherwise he/she should no longer have that job - a good publisher would see to that.



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[kimhollamby]

Not fishing for personal assignations

I genuinely wanted to establish whether you think that I, for example, am in it for the money, or that I, for example, care passionately about boating, which I guess is what boating enthusiasm is all about?

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[ccscott49]

Re: Not fishing for personal assignations

Less of yer lip Kimmiepoos! I think you are both, passionate about boating and a proffesional Journalist, You`d better be seeing as you`re one of the editors! Thats what I was trying to say! By the way, you gonna make the do this year?

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[Robin]

Re: Evolution

<<It is the editor's job to see that the number of new buyers exceeds the loss of older buyers. Otherwise he/she should no longer have that job - a good publisher would see to that.>>


In my line of work I like to keep my existing and very loyal customers happy as well as attracting new ones. I'm not sure a philosophy of you lose one gain two is that sustainable, very short term view IMHO.

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[ChrisE]

Couldn\'t have put it better myself NM

.

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[MainlySteam]

Re: So what am I?

About one of the only advantages of being a couple of months late in seeing the mags on the shelves out here is that I get forwarned on the forum of the next "unfortunate" change thats taken place in them.

However, when I eagerly get to see the edition in question, some months down the track, it is all really deflating. Not nearly as bad as made out by some, perhaps even an improvement. I wonder if it is something to do with being forewarned that softens the "blow" of the change?

Whatever, the ybw mags seem to disappear off the newsagents shelves pretty quickly out here still.

John

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[Hurleyburly]

Re: Evolution

Agree.

Would also be nice to see a response here from editor of PBO / YM, rather than Kim being constantly in the firing line.

Have to say I think YM has gone seriously downhill since the departure of Sarah Norbury.

'Any magazine has to change with the times and in doing so may offend and lose some older readers but will bring in new ones. '

I wouldn't consider myself an older reader at the age of 25 and only having been a consistent reader of YM for 5 years, yet I'm becoming increasingly disappointed by the product.

If the likes of Autocar can consistenly produce an eminently readable magazine each WEEK with genuinely enthralling and funny reviews and news, then why not YM ???

I realise that Autocar has a much larger circulation and thus more revenue, but perhaps they also have more dynamic leadership ?

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[Peppermint]

Re: So we attract new readers by

giving them cut and paste articles, vague puff pieces and bad answers from supposed experts do we?

If you disregard the news element of the mag in question, because no monthly can do news what would you highlight as attracting new readers?

Robin is right a business that can't retain customers as well as attracting new ones is just treading water.

Of course if you're not very discriminating or can't see the problem then you'll clearly get the magazine that you want. I'd advise that you take it's advice with a pinch of salt though.

After all my moan isn't about style it's about substance and content and no one seems to want to address those issues.

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[kimhollamby]

Interesting conundrum

If the market you are dealing with remains fairly static then it is probably easiest to apply what I agree has to be the perfect attitude, namely keeping your oldest and most valued customers happy. Numerous instances of the most successful businesses are those who have huge retention rates.

I don't think anyone on a magazine sets out to run a 'try to find two in exchange for one' policy; those of us that get heavily wrapped up in our mastheads (to the extent that you would think they were our own businesses -- a well-known disease in specialist consumer magazines) genuinely get stung by any messages that suggest we have as much as lost one reader. But the markets that magazines track, boating not least among them, sometimes move hugely and the titles ultimately have to move with them. It doesn't mean the changes are always right, but on the other hand it doesn't always mean that yesterday's solutions are appropriate, either.

I spent 13 years on one title watch the majority of the readership get 13 years older with me...never became a serious issue in my case but you can see where that sort of problem takes you if you are not careful. Arguably there are certain sectors of the boating market where that is a problem also for the people trying to earn their living out of it.

Finally, as I am in full on waffle mood, the 'would the hugely respected editors of 30 years ago have allowed/done/etc etc' debate is as fascinating I think as the one that asks whether Stanley Matthews would have made the same impact on a 2003 Man Utd/Arsenal/Chelsea side.

I make no bones about it...I would love to be the gentleman editor with a structure that allowed for more thinking time and the ability to leave a well controlled desk at 4.30pm for an evening sail. I'm not knocking that...in so many ways the space to think, and to enjoy an altogether gentler pastime, gave some of our previous greats a perspective we will never enjoy. On the other hand here you are, able to have a 'live' (if you can call it that) debate with some of us and we can sit here getting a much greater feel on any one day of the issues that are concerning many people in this country and outside of it. So it's changed, in common with everyones' expectations.



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[Robin]

Re: Interesting conundrum

My comment was related to Bob Tyler's simplistic explanation, but it does hold true IMO. It is difficult to reach for the stars if someone pulls away the chair!

Change is inevitable and despite us BOFS probably desirable as well. I have been a reader of everything boaty since time immemorial (remember Small Boat, Percy Blandford etc). I will probably keep the subs going too for YM, YW, and PBO but I do think some of the current stuff is not so good. I count 1hr to read as pretty good and 10 minutes as pretty poor, we have had a few 10 minute ones recently. That said 10 minutes for me might be an hour for the newbie customer.

Apart from Charter, Flotilla and Sailing School specials which I hate since I have no interest at all in those, I didn't spend a fortune on my boat to go rent one from someone else, my real hate is SHALLOW articles and made up scenarios. In the latest YM, the anchoring feature is 'shallow', the plotter feature is 'shallow' and the Radar Target Enhancer feature is not even wet. The Question Of Seamanship is a dreamed up scenario with an 'In Your Dreams Mate' answer that suggests a swim with a facemask in the tides approaching Alderney.

A big pet hate is hunting through the jumble of Around The Coast to find ANYTHING that relates to Poole, for one thing the reports in general are scattered around rather than collated, I do not like that format. But the main thing is that we have probably well in excess of 5,000 boats in Poole yet scarcely get a mention.

I hadn't intended getting drawn into this debate but as usual couldn't keep my mouth shut! I make it sound worse than it is, well a bit, it won't stop me subscribing but I would like to see improvements. I don't know if you see them but I must say I have been impressed with the French mags of late and always buy them when we are there. Might be worth your peeps having a peep.





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[pvb]

See what you mean...

I've just been reading the "Buyers' Guide" to chartplotters, and I think you summed it up well. What a waste of space, and what a lot of errors and omissions! JJ could surely have done so much better - but maybe he had to cobble the article together in an afternoon.

The people at Navman can't be pleased that JJ said their 5600 isn't waterproof. In fact, it's rated at IP67, which is actually better than the !PX5 rating for the Furuno sets.

Interesting too that he omitted the screen resolution data for the Furuno sets. They are both only 320x234, which puts a big question mark over the value-for-money of the £1693 Furuno GP1700.

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