Could be moving to Jersey what are the boating implications

[greggreystones]

Hopefully someone with experience can help me as I am a little confused on a couple of possible implications if I move to Jersey.
My questions are as follows
1. Do I have to pay any additional taxes to keep my boat there?
2. If I register my boat there and then move a few years later back to UK, am I able to sell my boat as VAT paid (as it is paid now)
3. Would it be better for me to sell my boat and buy a VAT free boat in Jersey - is there any other costs involved
4. What else should I be considering concerning the boat in a move like this.

Thanks for any help

 

[jfm]

1 no
2. rereg is irrelevant. Yes, but you will need to do something or other, and the full list of your options is tedious to write out here. Best thing to do will probably be to make 100% sure to cruise boat back to EU at least every 3rd year, ie no period of 3 years or greater outside the EU. Retain evidence like marina bills. Very easy to achieve
3. Well AOTBE the replacement identical boat if you can find it is 20% cheaper so you free up that much cash to deploy elsewhere but you'll never see that in practice so I'd say no, not for tax reasons.
4. Nothing

 

[benjenbav]

Re item #4 and thinking of the CI tidal ranges: longer warps.

 

[superheat6k]

The Marinas in St Helier are mostly Cill controlled, so the range is less of an issue, but you would have to consider accessibility around the tides. Having a boat that can take the ground regularly is a definite advantage. My Corvette was specially fitted out for this at original build - beaching legs plus reinforced keel plate.

When I bought mine from Jersey last year the broker had to de-register her from the Jersey States / Harbour people, who I think levy some form of fee, but possibly linked to the mooring fees anyway.

I still have the contact details for the broker I used last year - he was very helpful and I am sure would be able to give you very sound advice. PM me if you would like his number.

Another advantage I have discovered his the lack of frosts in Winter makes teak decks last far longer.

 

[l'escargot]

Hopefully someone with experience can help me as I am a little confused on a couple of possible implications if I move to Jersey.
My questions are as follows
1. Do I have to pay any additional taxes to keep my boat there?
2. If I register my boat there and then move a few years later back to UK, am I able to sell my boat as VAT paid (as it is paid now)
3. Would it be better for me to sell my boat and buy a VAT free boat in Jersey - is there any other costs involved
4. What else should I be considering concerning the boat in a move like this.

Thanks for any help

I keep my boat in Jersey

If your boat doesn't leave Jersey waters for a minimum of 14 consecutive nights in 18 months you will be charged 5% GST on the value. Every time you leave for 14 consecutive nights the 18 month clock restarts.

Your boat needs to be registered with the Jersey coastguard if it is going to remain in Jersey waters for more than 3 months - the marina administers that.

Your boat ceases to be VAT paid after 3 years out of EU waters but there may be different implications if we leave the EU.

I am considering selling my boat in Jersey as VAT paid and getting something different, I wouldn't rule out buying a VAT not paid boat at the right price but it wouldn't be a primary reason.

The lifestyle in Jersey is very attractive and sociable. The marinas are very well run. Keeping a boat out there long term, Elizabeth marina is the best option although they do offer discounted winter rates if you move round to St Helier marina.

Edit:

Just noticed you said "move" to Jersey - all that is based on being a UK resident but keeping a boat there - if you take up residence, things area bit different. You may not have a GST/VAT liability with a move in either direction but I believe there are minimum periods you must keep your boat before you can sell it.

 

[superheat6k]

Your boat ceases to be VAT paid after 3 years out of EU waters but there may be different implications if we leave the EU.

Whereas my reading of the VAT rules agrees with the foregoing, re Customs Notice 8, when I was looking last year one of the boats I viewed in Jersey was being claimed as VAT paid even though it had been owned and berthed in Jersey for at least 7 years. But the RYA Lawyer told me the boat was till VAT paid as long as the original exporter / owner sold it.

The vendor did suggest a few casual visits to France for which no specific history was provided, meant it had retained its VAT paid status, but I was not prepared to have to argue with HMRC Small Boat unit on this point, and the wording of Customs Notice 8 is unambiguous on this point.

The RYA Lawyer could not show how she held this interpretation, beyond suggesting the rules could be waived for owner exporters, which I accepted as very dodgy ground to be stood on when discussing the (possible) VAT demand just landed from a possibly pissed HMRC Inspector.

 

[l'escargot]

...suggesting the rules could be waived for owner exporters...

I have seen suggestions that there is provision for this which is what I was alluding to in my edit. I suspect it may all revolve around which residential status you hold in Jersey.

 

[Bandit]

As far as I understand it if you are able to retain the VAT paid status I understand that the "actual point of sale" to another EU resident needs to take place in the EU ie UK or France rather than in Jersey itself. Its worth discussing the actual practicalities of this with a good CI Broker.

It also depends from a practical point of view whether your current boat is suitable for cruising out of Jersey size and type wise ie a 17ft bow rider is not suitable for cruising .

Large tides and strong tidal flows along with marinas with with cills and therefore set closing times as well as on occasions very lumpy weather, it favours motor over sail a cruising speed of 20 knots is good as is an employer who does not mind you pissing off early on a Friday to catch the tide.

From St Helier you have excellent destinations a reasonable cruising distance away.

 

[Piers]

If I register my boat there and then move a few years later back to UK, am I able to sell my boat as VAT paid (as it is paid now)

I recommend taking expert advice on this issue. MBY published some information from a group of VAT lawyers on just this issue some time ago. I contacted the group about Play d'eau which is kept in Guernsey with us. The answers were somewhat complex. I'd recommend checking with experts, or changing boats.

 

[greggreystones]

Thanks everyone for your advice, it does look a bit complicated. My position would be that I would live in Jersey but work in Uk (my partner will work in Jersey). The boat is a Prestige 32 which from above comments should be suitable.
I will need to look into the detail surrounding the VAT status, if the rules are that you need to take the boat out of Jersey for certain amount of days every 3 years then this would not be a problem.
Another thought is to sell the boat before we move to stop any confusion as I have been considering something slightly bigger.

 

[Bandit]

Cruising distances from St Helier in nm:
Guernsey & Herm 29
Sark about 25
Carteret 26
Granville 30
St Malo 38
St Cast 36
St Quay-Portrieux 46
Paimpol 45

etc
etc

Look at the excellent independent Digimap GG website for marina info. http://www.digimap.gg/marine/marinas/

 

[smitjah]

I live in Jersey and over the years have owned a sailing yacht, semi-displacement motorboats and a fully planing motorboat ie the full range as far as speed is concerned. Learn to work the tides and you can enjoy all types of cruising, though I agree with an earlier post that an understanding employer might be handy. We are now retired and these days cruise at 8 knots. (11 lph). It's great going slower. Can't help re VAT, but I would strongly recommend you speak to the marina office asap to get your name on the waiting list for a berth.

 

[jfm]

There is quite a bit of incorrect VAT analysis creeping into this thread, along with random terms like "actual point of sale". Also, as I have said before, my view is that you shouldn't rely on RYA for legal or tax advice because they get plenty wrong.

 

[Piers]

There is quite a bit of incorrect VAT analysis creeping into this thread, along with random terms like "actual point of sale". Also, as I have said before, my view is that you shouldn't rely on RYA for legal or tax advice because they get plenty wrong.

Here, here. For example, I have been told by their Legal dept that COLREGS sound signals do not apply to leisure vessels!

 

[benjenbav]

Thanks everyone for your advice, it does look a bit complicated. My position would be that I would live in Jersey but work in Uk (my partner will work in Jersey). The boat is a Prestige 32 which from above comments should be suitable.
I will need to look into the detail surrounding the VAT status, if the rules are that you need to take the boat out of Jersey for certain amount of days every 3 years then this would not be a problem.
Another thought is to sell the boat before we move to stop any confusion as I have been considering something slightly bigger.

Are you moving to take up the vacant Chair as Professor of ManMaths at the Institute of Studies?

"Darling, this tax stuff resulting from your new job in Jersey is a real headache. The only sure way round it is to buy a bigger boat".

Chapeau!

 

[Angele]

Others have covered the potential loss of VAT paid status on the boat.

In addition, bringing goods in the island potentially exposes you to having to pay GST. Either it is a temporary importation (and so the boat needs to leave the island periodically), or it is importation on becoming resident. Subject to the exact circumstances in your case, you will probably be ok. Read this:

https://www.gov.je/LifeEvents/MovingToJersey/Pages/MovingWithMotorVehicle.aspx

In particular, download the document entitled "ID GST Direction 201401 Relief of GST on Imported Goods 20140218 JE".

Para 9 talks about importing goods (including pleasure craft) and, providing you have owned it for more than 6 months when taking up residence in the island and you satisfy the other criteria, then GST should not be payable. But you do need to declare the importation when you bring the boat over (or, better still, before):

Application [for relief from GST] can be made before or at the time of import

My advice would be for you to ring Jersey Customs and talk the situation through with them. I did so when they (erroneously) thought I had imported my boat into the island. They were very sensible and professional.

 

[Piers]

In addition, bringing goods in the island potentially exposes you to having to pay GST. Either it is a temporary importation (and so the boat needs to leave the island periodically), or it is importation on becoming resident.

...or come to Guernsey where there's no GST...

 

[Angele]

...or come to Guernsey where there's no GST...

Possibly a bit excessive if his SWMBO is going to be living and working in crapaud land, and he can import the boat for free provided he does it properly.....

 

[Bandit]

There is quite a bit of incorrect VAT analysis creeping into this thread, along with random terms like "actual point of sale". Also, as I have said before, my view is that you shouldn't rely on RYA for legal or tax advice because they get plenty wrong.

i was referring to a comment further up the page about selling a VAT paid boat in Jersey.

I don't profess to understand the intricacies however I have been informed that a sale of a VAT paid boat in Jersey even between two EU residents ( not A CI resident) can break the chain and lose the VAT paid status of the boat?

if the OP's status when living in Jersey is not clearly as a Jersey resident, he may be at risk of having to pay VAT when visiting France or UK with a boat that is not VAT paid.

Take professional advice.

 

[jfm]

i was referring to a comment further up the page about selling a VAT paid boat in Jersey.

Sure. I'm just pointing out that the phrase "actual point of sale" seems to imply some precision, but in fact it provides none at all. It is a completely undefined concept

... I have been informed that a sale of a VAT paid boat in Jersey even between two EU residents ( not A CI resident) can break the chain and lose the VAT paid status of the boat...

That's 100% correct in nearly all cases

if the OP's status when living in Jersey is not clearly as a Jersey resident, he may be at risk of having to pay VAT when visiting France or UK with a boat that is not VAT paid.

That is correct but does not reflect the facts here. OP's boat is already VAT paid and provided he returns to EU every 3 years (which he has confirmed he can do) then it will retain its VAT paid status in his ownership. What might happen if the boat were not VAT paid seems irrelevant unless I'm missing something.

Take professional advice.

Now there's a thing. Where from?