Corruption in Croatia?

[Seven Spades]

I watched the latest "Sailing Fair Isle" YouTube yesterday where he exposes blatant corruption, with demands for "fines" to be paid in cash. Is this confined to Dubrovnik or could he have checked out of say Split to avoid this injustice. I was amazed to see the border control admit that they collect £500 a day in bogus fines.

Would Montenegro have cared if he had just sailed there without "checking out" of Croatia.

 

[Mark-1]

If it helps anyone, 5m05s is the relevant bit.

Hope they send that vid to whatever authorities in Croatia might be interested. (I'm not optimistic.)

Perhaps more usefully, I wonder if the EU has any kind of anti corruption process that they could report this to.

 

[Mark-1]

ould Montenegro have cared if he had just sailed there without "checking out" of Croatia.

I suspect not, but the issue didn't seem to be checking out, the issue was they'd had their passports grabbed.

Someone once told me alway hand over passports one at a time, never hand them all over. He was talking about corrupt far flung places, I guess it applies nearer home as well.

I guess paying the price of a slap up meal was far less bother than going to the British Embassy to get it all sorted, but if I was a youtuber looking for viewers I'd have done the latter!

 

[RichardS]

I watched the latest "Sailing Fair Isle" YouTube yesterday where he exposes blatant corruption, with demands for "fines" to be paid in cash. Is this confined to Dubrovnik or could he have checked out of say Split to avoid this injustice. I was amazed to see the border control admit that they collect £500 a day in bogus fines.

Would Montenegro have cared if he had just sailed there without "checking out" of Croatia.

Once you have cleared out you are supposed to take a direct route out of Croatian waters. They could have cleared out in Split but if they had sailed down the coast within the 12 mile limit, then they could well be fined.

I would have thought that they should have cleared out in Cavtat as that is a couple of miles further down the coast but perhaps the Croatians treat Cavtat and Dubrovnik as one customs office?

Richard

 

[TiggerToo]

If it helps anyone, 5m05s is the relevant bit.

Hope they send that vid to whatever authorities in Croatia might be interested. (I'm not optimistic.)

Perhaps more usefully, I wonder if the EU has any kind of anti corruption process that they could report this to.

I imagine it would be more effective to report the event to the local Ministry of Tourism - which Stephen and Judy have done.

 

[TiggerToo]

I imagine it would be more effective to report the event to the local Ministry of Tourism - which Stephen and Judy have done.

by the way, they produce an excellent series. Entertaining and useful. And genuine.

 

[Seven Spades]

Once you have cleared out you are supposed to take a direct route out of Croatian waters. They could have cleared out in Split but if they had sailed down the coast within the 12 mile limit, then they could well be fined.

I would have thought that they should have cleared out in Cavtat as that is a couple of miles further down the coast but perhaps the Croatians treat Cavtat and Dubrovnik as one customs office?

Richard

Yes I have read that I wonder if that is legal, I would have expected it to be covered by “innocent passage” rules unless Croatia is not a signatory.

 

[Irish Rover]

OK, I know what I'm going to say is unlikely to be popular but that portion of the video (I didn't look at any other part) is an absolute disgrace. There's absolutely no evidence of corruption, as alleged in the video and in the title of this thread. It's clear the customs officials had a poor command of English and were dealing with 2 people who spoke very fast and both at the same time. I'm not saying they were charged correctly but at worst we have some evidence of maladministration but none of corruption. Government offices in many countries do not accept cards and only deal in cash - here in Turkey it's the norm and last time I was in Greece I had to pay for my transit log and cruising tax in cash. I'd really like to see the full text of their letter to the Tourism Ministry and the reply. It's unlikely to have been as cut and dried as the imply. Just for good measure I wonder how many laws the broke by filming secretly in a government office and publishing film of individual officers on the Internet. I hope the customs officers see the video and find themselves a good lawyer.

 

[Mark-1]

OK, I know what I'm going to say is unlikely to be popular but that portion of the video (I didn't look at any other part) is an absolute disgrace. There's absolutely no evidence of corruption, as alleged in the video and in the title of this thread. It's clear the customs officials had a poor command of English and were dealing with 2 people who spoke very fast and both at the same time. I'm not saying they were charged correctly but at worst we have some evidence of maladministration but none of corruption. Government offices in many countries do not accept cards and only deal in cash - here in Turkey it's the norm and last time I was in Greece I had to pay for my transit log and cruising tax in cash. I'd really like to see the full text of their letter to the Tourism Ministry and the reply. It's unlikely to have been as cut and dried as the imply. Just for good measure I wonder how many laws the broke by filming secretly in a government office and publishing film of individual officers on the Internet. I hope the customs officers see the video and find themselves a good lawyer.

I sort of take your point, but money was handed over and there's clearly no receipt with the reason for the payment written on it. That can't be explained by language difficulties or misunderstandings.

 

[Irish Rover]

I sort of take your point, but money was handed over and there's clearly no receipt with the reason for the payment written on it. That can't be explained by language difficulties or misunderstandings.

Are you sure about this - what's your source. They say on the video the form filling took another half hour after the money changed hands. What forms? Did they ask for or get a copy?

 

[Mark-1]

Are you sure about this - what's your source. They say on the video the form filling took another half hour after the money changed hands. What forms? Did they ask for or get a copy?

Again fair points.

I should have said there's no *mention* of a receipt with the reason for the payment written on it.

So (for me) that rules out misunderstanding. Either the story is broadly true or the YouTubers are deliberately lying to get hits. I don't think it's credible that there's a receipt they haven't noticed. Given that, I'm inclined to think the YouTubers are broadly correct in their version of events on the basis that I don't think they'd embarrass themselves with an outright lie on such a public medium. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

Totally buy your points though. The camera does lie. Misunderstandings do happen. The guy editing the footage can make it fit any story he wants.

 

[Irish Rover]

Again fair points.

I should have said there's no *mention* of a receipt with the reason for the payment written on it.

So (for me) that rules out misunderstanding. Either the story is broadly true or the YouTubers are deliberately lying to get hits. I don't think it's credible that there's a receipt they haven't noticed. Given that, I'm inclined to think the YouTubers are broadly correct in their version of events on the basis that I don't think they'd embarrass themselves with an outright lie on such a public medium. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

Totally buy your points though. The camera does lie. Misunderstandings do happen. The guy editing the footage can make it fit any story he wants.

Neither of of us knows the truth, in fairness, but I wasn't impressed by their behaviour towards the Customs officials. What's clear to me is that they saw an opportunity for a sensational video to make money for themselves and decided to exploit it - the reference to "I've got your money, your corruption money" is for me particularly telling.

 

[Mark-1]

I take it all back. In the comments someone who appears to be Judy says they do have a receipt.

All, bets are off without seeing what that says and pretty shoddy of them not to show it. Could easily be a misunderstanding.

 

[RichardS]

I haven't watched the whole video but there are two taxes payable in Croatia, the Vignette and the Sojourn tax.

The Vignette is a marine tax and has to be paid at a Harbour Masters office. The Sojourn Tax, based on number of people on the boat per period of time, can be paid online or at the HM office and possibly at a Tourism office as it's a tourist/visitor tax rather than a marine tax.

These taxes should be paid in advance as soon as you enter Croatia by sea or as soon as you arrive at your boat. When you clear our of Croatia you will be asked for proof that the two taxes have been paid. If you have not paid them, or have stayed for longer than you paid for, then you will be charged retrospectively.

It sounds as if the people in the video are talking about a tax based on number of people and time spent onboard but they presumably cannot be discussing the Sojourn Tax as everyone knows about that and it is covered on several official Croatian websites.

Richard

 

[TiggerToo]

I haven't watched the whole video but there are two taxes payable in Croatia, the Vignette and the Sojourn tax.

I got the impression they knew about those, and paid them. This was covered in one of their previous videos PLUS in their responses on the U tube thread.

 

[Sybarite]

Neither of of us knows the truth, in fairness, but I wasn't impressed by their behaviour towards the Customs officials. What's clear to me is that they saw an opportunity for a sensational video to make money for themselves and decided to exploit it - the reference to "I've got your money, your corruption money" is for me particularly telling.

They had a reply from the Croatian authorities who confirmed that the fines were illegal.
They have asked to be reimbursed.

 

[Irish Rover]

They had a reply from the Croatian authorities who confirmed that the fines were illegal.
They have asked to be reimbursed.

I didn't see anything in the video which said the Croatian authorities confirmed the fines were illegal.

 

[Mark-1]

They had a reply from the Croatian authorities who confirmed that the fines were illegal.

I don't think that text said what you think it said.

 

[Sybarite]

I didn't see anything in the video which said the Croatian authorities confirmed the fines were illegal.

8:16 onwards

 

[Sybarite]

I don't think that text said what you think it said.

See #19