copying Navionics card

[lustyd]

But full cloning programs don't read the files ... they just create a total clone of the original - yes read that again .. TOTAL clone ...

Seriously, try at least a quick Google of how SD cards work when used in protected mode. Yes, you can absolutely copy block by block, and yes you will absolutely end up with an identical set of data. You will, however, be lacking the required encryption key to decrypt that data so it'll be utterly useless jibberish.

A few of us have tried to explain this to you. Some of us experts in the field. I'll say it again, DOS hadn't been used for 20 years when SD card encryption was designed and any old cloning programs couldn't possibly have allowed for the copying of the key, not least of which because a standard reader can't write to the key anyway.

 

[Refueler]

Seriously, try at least a quick Google of how SD cards work when used in protected mode. Yes, you can absolutely copy block by block, and yes you will absolutely end up with an identical set of data. You will, however, be lacking the required encryption key to decrypt that data so it'll be utterly useless jibberish.

A few of us have tried to explain this to you. Some of us experts in the field. I'll say it again, DOS hadn't been used for 20 years when SD card encryption was designed and any old cloning programs couldn't possibly have allowed for the copying of the key, not least of which because a standard reader can't write to the key anyway.

You go your way - I'll go mine ...

I will not give more detail here or PM as it is basically crossing the legal line describing how to fully clone - but I can tell you that it has been done and successfully ....

There is another way - that does not need a full cloning - but requires another card of the same chart system but not needed to be same area.

I may be a Petrochemical person and ex Ships ... but Computers are not a strange world to me ...

No skin of my nose if you don't believe ...

 

[lustyd]

I don't mind whether you agree with the rest of us either, but it does concern me that you're misleading others on the forum with not only bad advice but just plain incorrect. Hopefully they'll ignore like the rest of us who know better.

There are no laws against sharing methods, only circumventing encryption and copy protection.

 

[Refueler]

I don't mind whether you agree with the rest of us either, but it does concern me that you're misleading others on the forum with not only bad advice but just plain incorrect. Hopefully they'll ignore like the rest of us who know better.

There are no laws against sharing methods, only circumventing encryption and copy protection.

Suggest you search online Russian based sites and you will be educated how wrong you are ... there are pages about this and how to do it ... even with example downloads ...

Navionics has for ages been duplicated / hacked / broken by such ... I don't use their programs - don't want to ... but a number of boaters I personally know - do and they are happily using cards with latest charting.
I did use the method I posted about as a test when I was given the Yandex links - out of interest to see if it still worked - which it did - so I know you are wrong. But that's as far as I went - tested - confirmed.

Because my method requires the original card to base on - its not a cheap or free way to gain the charting ... but the Russian sites are. With Smartphone Navionics sub being cheap - why bother ?

Saying "agree with the rest of us" .... mmmmm so now you rallying the troops eh ?

I shall now leave you to your own conviction on this and wish you fair seas ...

 

[Rhylsailer99]

In the old days of DOS - there were Copy Programs that created exact clone copies of discs, (Diskcopy, Copyright etc) ... you could clone a 5.25 floppy to a 3.5" and all sorts .. the 3.5 would be exact copy of the 5.25. You could not the other way though as the donor card had to same or larger than the clone card.

The programs are long gone and hard to find now ... but I do know they work with CD's / SD cards etc via Dosbox ......

I do not support the cloning - just saying.

It used to be possible to transfer Navionics - but you needed an old Navionics card to copy to ... basically the card was already authenticated Navionics card and it did not matter what area chart files went on ...
I think that has been blocked now ...

Yes, i remember them i believe one was called Norton ghost or try this one : 4: Clone SD card with Win32DiskImager

 

[lustyd]

Yes, i remember them i believe one was called Norton ghost or try this one : 4: Clone SD card with Win32DiskImager

Again though this only clones the contents, not the read only key that enables you to use those contents. SD cards are nothing like other drives as they have built in DRM copy protection that’s not writable with standard hardware. Since it’s not writable you can’t copy the key and if you can’t copy the key the copy is useless.
It is possible to break the DRM on the content, but that’s a totally different thing to a copy.

 

[Refueler]

Yes, i remember them i believe one was called Norton ghost or try this one : 4: Clone SD card with Win32DiskImager

Forget Norton ... and Imager ... as Lustyd says - they only clone the files ....

Second - the usual copy progs will have size limitations as well as media limitations ... its only later OS that allowed the use of SD cards etc ... look back at Windoze development and its lack of connectivity. But the Copy prog's that I referred to do not have size or media limitations .... the trick is to know how to run them on todays Win platform that has integrated the DOS into the Windoze system.

 

[lustyd]

Modern Windows has nothing whatsoever to do with DOS. From Windows XP it’s been NT based even on the home version.
Win32DiskImager doesn’t have size limits, being block based.
SD copy protection is a hardware feature that cannot be written to with standard hardware.

Please stop posting misinformation, it’s not helpful.

 

[Refueler]

Modern Windows has nothing whatsoever to do with DOS. From Windows XP it’s been NT based even on the home version.
Win32DiskImager doesn’t have size limits, being block based.
SD copy protection is a hardware feature that cannot be written to with standard hardware.

Please stop posting misinformation, it’s not helpful.

I was happy enough to let you live in your fantasy .. but now you have shown your lack of understanding.

I did not type : MS-DOS .. or PC-DOS etc.
I typed DOS ... which is Disc Operation System. A fact that all computers have .. regardless of their brand / format ... It can be Apples IOS ... Later Windows NT ... older Windows with MS-DOS base ...

NT is just a term for : New Technology ......

In fact if you go back to evolution of Windows ... NT comes from the Server Base days and it was NOT well accepted by the market .. it languished in the nerds domain ... until MS decided to re-vamp the Windows platform and foisted it on the market ... it actually caused more hang-ups, obsolescence of good equipment that could no longer be connected to the PC.

Really - stop digging that hole .... I was happy to let it go .. do everyone a favour and rein in.

 

[Cardinal]

Please don’t hold back-I’m learning much about which I formerly knew little.

 

[lustyd]

In fact if you go back to evolution of Windows ... NT comes from the Server Base days and it was NOT well accepted by the market .. it languished in the nerds domain ... until MS decided to re-vamp the Windows platform and foisted it on the market ... it actually caused more hang-ups, obsolescence of good equipment that could no longer be connected to the PC.

Not even close to true. NT was a roaring success in almost every business in the world, and by Windows 2000 was pretty much the standard system for servers outside of the Unix and Mainframe world. XP was based on NT precisely because of this popularity, with many techies choosing Win2000 workstation as their desktop OS despite it not being designed for that.
This lineage is unrelated to DOS in absolutely every way, it came from DEC/Compaq rather than Microsoft, not that MS really wrote DOS either. DOS morphed into Windows 95 which unlike 3.x was not a UI on top of DOS but an integrated OS and OS/2 which was a failed IBM version of the same. Both of these lineages are dead and buried at this point and their code bases abandoned in favour of NT which has become Server 2025 and Windows 11.

No, NT is not a DOS, it's a microkernel/hybrid kernel based system which is designed and engineered in a completely different way to DOS. Linux adopted a similar architecture.

None of your operating system misinformation has any relevance to the fact that the secure part of the secure digital card is not writeable. This means that if you did copy the disk, it would be unreadable. The only way to make the content readable on a different disk would be to modify the content and change the key it expects. This is not copying, it's cracking and is an entirely different process, also not available in the days of DOS systems because the DRM system you'd have to crack had not been conceived of at the time.

And for me, no this isn't a fantasy it's my career.

 

[Refueler]

Unfortunately one of my previous assignments while working for one of the worlds largest Multi National Commodities Inspection Company- was to be part of the team integrating national networks back to Head Office. This was in the period when MS was bullshitting the market about NT / 2000 .... Reason I was in the team - was I had worked with Paul - ex Professor of Computer Studies and Systems - North London. We had put together two national networks which ran sweetly.
Head Office believed the MS BS and basically followed the market .. not much choice really. Its the age old ploy ... get a market ... have it literally depend on you .. new design comes out .. a large part of market is reluctant to change - so what to do ? Get enough of the market to change .. then remove / modify parts so that only that system will now do the job ... and that forces a change on market. To complete the company net - all systems had to be revamped - which meant we lost a lot of Lab and office equipment as incompatible.

MS didn't give a crap about it ... it was just another day in the Windoze arena.

I'm outta here - I've had enough of blinkered crap ... Bye.

 

[Mark-1]

I couldn't resist asking Chat GPT if lustyd was right in his history of operating systems and below is what chat GPT told me. I'm impressed. (With LD, not with CGPT.)

1. Popularity of NT and Windows 2000:
   
   • Fact: Windows NT gained significant popularity in business environments, especially for servers. Windows 2000, based on NT technology, did become a widely used system for servers and workstations.
2. Windows XP Based on NT:
   
   • Fact: Windows XP was indeed based on the Windows NT architecture. This transition was part of Microsoft's strategy to unify their consumer and business operating systems under a single architecture.
3. Lineage Unrelated to DOS:
   
   • Fact: The NT lineage is largely unrelated to DOS. Windows NT was a completely new architecture, not a continuation of the DOS-based systems.
4. Origin of NT:
   
   • Clarification: The development of Windows NT was heavily influenced by Dave Cutler and his team, who came from Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC). However, NT was developed within Microsoft, not by DEC/Compaq.
5. MS-DOS Development:
   
   • Fact: Microsoft did write MS-DOS, initially acquiring 86-DOS (QDOS) from Seattle Computer Products and then developing it further.
6. Windows 95 Integration with DOS:
   
   • Clarification: Windows 95 was not an entirely integrated OS in the way modern operating systems are. It still relied on MS-DOS for certain functionalities, particularly during the boot process, although it presented a more seamless user interface than previous versions like Windows 3.x.
7. OS/2:
   
   • Fact: OS/2 was a joint project between Microsoft and IBM initially. It was intended as a successor to DOS and Windows but eventually became primarily an IBM product after the partnership dissolved. OS/2 did not succeed in the market and was overshadowed by Windows NT and later Windows versions.
8. Current NT Versions:
   
   • Fact: The NT lineage continues in modern Windows versions, including Windows Server 2022 and Windows 11. However, there is no Windows "Server 2025" as of my knowledge cutoff in 2023.
9. Kernel Architecture:
   
   • Fact: Windows NT uses a hybrid kernel architecture, which combines aspects of microkernel and monolithic kernel designs. Linux, on the other hand, uses a monolithic kernel design, not a hybrid one.

On the issue of CID and DRM, of course DRM will use the CID (how else?) and a byte by byte copy will not yield files usable on a different card. If you could easily duplicate Navionics SD cards Navionics wouldn't have a business. (IMHO)

 

[lustyd]

I mean, he can't even spell Windows so I feel it was fairly clear I was right.

We only just announced Server 2025 so it makes sense that that version of GPT wouldn't be aware