Coppercoat - Pros & Cons

[mrming]

We have a swing keel boat which is difficult to antifoul. We race and need a reasonable bottom finish. We chose Coppercoat because we were able to concentrate on getting a good finish once and then leave it alone.

It doesn't work that well in our brackish water (nothing really does), but we scrub off regularly (probably 7 times a season) and Coppercoat is tough so it isn't washed away during the scrub like some antifouls. It's horses for courses obviously, but for a lift keel yacht which is difficult to come at Coppercoat makes a lot of sense.

 

[Simondjuk]

Whole operation costs about £80 - about 3% of the cost of coppercoat.

I don't need it, but I'd like to know where I can buy sufficient antifoul for a 40 footer for £24 anyway.

 

[pagoda]

I don't need it, but I'd like to know where I can buy sufficient antifoul for a 40 footer for £24 anyway.

nice concept ...

 

[Rivers & creeks]

I don't need it, but I'd like to know where I can buy sufficient antifoul for a 40 footer for £24 anyway.

£5 for rollers and trays, £5 for tape and gloves. £70 for two tins of antifoul - £35 each average on eBay, no need to pay silly money. And a strange sense of satisfaction when the job's done, though clearly if I get my kicks that way then I need to get out more

 

[john_morris_uk]

£5 for rollers and trays, £5 for tape and gloves. £70 for two tins of antifoul - £35 each average on eBay, no need to pay silly money. And a strange sense of satisfaction when the job's done, though clearly if I get my kicks that way then I need to get out more

I'm glad you get satisfaction from anti-fouling your boat but your claims that those of us are not correct in justifying it through cost are still exaggerated. I've just scanned through all the anti-fouling on eBay. The cheapest 2.5 litre tins are £42 including postage. Our boat needs three tins. That's £126 for the cheapest (and in my experience not very effective anti-fouling) in my book. I suppose it's conceivable that a bulk purchase might reduce postal costs but it still makes your claim's about 3% of the cost ring a little hollow.

It still makes my Coppercoat good value.

Each to their own though...

 

[Hoolie]

We are having our boat treated for osmosis so have a smooth, clean epoxied hull. But we've decided NOT to go for CC with our experience with Micron Extra in the Western Med. Even after 4 years between applications there is practically no fouling on the hull and very little weed or slime. The boat does not come out over the winter so factoring in costs for lifting out for scrubbing CC means it's not really cost effective.

Of course the prop is another story entirely and I'm using Velox this year to see how effective it is.

 

[Seven Spades]

We are in Ocean Village and we and that our boat "slimes" quicker than anti-fouled boats. We don't get any barnacles. Ou usual strategy is to launch in March, have a lift-hold and just off in July and then leave for our summer holidays. This strategy works well and you can find summer-scrub deals around.

What I would say is that it is important for the boat to be out of the water for at least 4 weeks the winter. We find that if the boat comes out for a quick jet off and re-launch the grass/slim returns much quicker. My guess is that by keeping the boat out of the water for 4 weeks kills the roots of anger grass etc and it takes much longer for any grass to return as a result.

After 10 years I am about to re-apply coppercoat. If you do have your boat treated yo will be delighted when he boat os lifted at the end of the season as there really is nothing to do once it has been jet washed.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Tend to agree. Antifouling is not all that pleasant, but does not really take very long. It is quite satisfying in some respects since you know where you have been. I talked to some folks locally (Clyde) who professionally clean boats. Some coppercoat works .. some doesn't. They tend to think applying new antifoul is not much of an evil. and not that expensive. I watched old antifoul being wet blasted off earlier this year- prior to an epoxy coat and new antifoul. Impressive business. removing the lot back to gelcoat every 10 years sounds not a bad idea. But not but not by hand!! Do what works for you and your boat (and pocket)

I think that it isn't so much APPLYING antifoul that made me move to Coppercoat, as knowing that periodically I was going to have to remove the build-up of old antifoul. It once took my brother a whole season to remove the antifoul from his boat, which was smaller than mine! Admittedly that was extreme, but from helping him do it, I also know that removing old antifoul is a truly horrible job. Even the wet sanding before applying a coat of antifoul over the top of the existing coating isn't a pleasant job, even with a pole sander. With CC, it was worth paying for a really good job of removal to be done, knowing that it was a one-off cost that wouldn't be repeated for at least 10 years. Further, blasting exposed issues with pitting and inclusions in my cast iron keel that I wouldn't have found otherwise, but which would have continued to give trouble.

 

[MagicalArmchair]

.... With CC, it was worth paying for a really good job of removal to be done, knowing that it was a one-off cost that wouldn't be repeated for at least 10 years. Further, blasting exposed issues with pitting and inclusions in my cast iron keel that I wouldn't have found otherwise, but which would have continued to give trouble.

I applied CC directly over very old CC (hence my DIY application was quite so quick and painless), so that stripping off of old Antifoul only ever has to happen once . I'm hoping if I treat my CC right (unlike the first application of mine where I abraded it every year till I had just about worn it away ) I can get away with at least 15 years... then I'll be buying my new shiny £400,000 Hallberg Rassy anyway... probably... if I can ever bring myself to part with Triola...

 

[Rivers & creeks]

I'm glad you get satisfaction from anti-fouling your boat but your claims that those of us are not correct in justifying it through cost are still exaggerated. I've just scanned through all the anti-fouling on eBay. The cheapest 2.5 litre tins are £42 including postage. Our boat needs three tins. That's £126 for the cheapest (and in my experience not very effective anti-fouling) in my book. I suppose it's conceivable that a bulk purchase might reduce postal costs but it still makes your claim's about 3% of the cost ring a little hollow.

It still makes my Coppercoat good value.

Each to their own though...

Indeed, see post 31

 

[Babylon]

Indeed, see post 31

I've read and pondered post 31, and I've come to the conclusion that happiness is everything.

 

[Simondjuk]

£5 for rollers and trays, £5 for tape and gloves. £70 for two tins of antifoul - £35 each average on eBay, no need to pay silly money. And a strange sense of satisfaction when the job's done, though clearly if I get my kicks that way then I need to get out more

I can't pay £35 a tin though. If I do I'll be well over your 3% AF versus CC cost. I need enough for a 40 footer for £24 to make that percentage against the £800 my CC cost. Say, 3 tins will just do it, so I need to buy at £8 a tin and was hoping to know where I can do that in case I change my mind on the CC at some point.

If I have to spend £105 on 3 tins, that's 13% of the cost of my CC and not so tempting as I'm losing before the end of year 8 and means my 12 year old CC, which is still going strong, has already saved me spending 56% more on £35 a tin antifoul in those 12 years.

I doubt I can get £35 a tin antifoul, I've saved an annual chore each season for the last 12 years, I've spent up to 4 years straight afloat without a single lift, and I reckon my CC has many years life left in it yet. So you've sold me, even by comparison with cheaper antifoul than I've ever seen, my CC is already a bargain, and will become an even bigger one each year for several more years yet.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

I can't pay £35 a tin though. If I do I'll be well over your 3% AF versus CC cost. I need enough for a 40 footer for £24 to make that percentage against the £800 my CC cost. Say, 3 tins will just do it, so I need to buy at £8 a tin and was hoping to know where I can do that in case I change my mind on the CC at some point.

If I have to spend £105 on 3 tins, that's 13% of the cost of my CC and not so tempting as I'm losing before the end of year 8 and means my 12 year old CC, which is still going strong, has already saved me spending 56% more on £35 a tin antifoul in those 12 years.

I don't understand what you're saying so I would guess that you're completely right and you should 100% go with Coppercoat. Or not, if you were arguing that you shouldn't. But when you get that antifoul for £8 let me have a tin, I'll pay you a tenner and we'll both be sorted.

 

[Javelin]

Personally I hate the stuff.
Can be a pain to apply all four coats in a day.
Once its gone off you still need to abrade it.
Using their guide to how much you need to abrade its very easy to sand it off in places unless the hull was very fair to begin with.
Here on the river it is simply not as good as Seajet.
When you get her out and wash her down you need to abrade again which can be just as hard as painting anti foul with a roller.
Unless you get a good key and clean up well it can flake off which then needs recoating.
We've seen increased anode wear on boats we've coated.

CW, if you ask for us to coat the LK in the future I will throw that 40' mast you've got your eye on into the river.

 

[geem]

Personally I hate the stuff.
Can be a pain to apply all four coats in a day.
Once its gone off you still need to abrade it.
Using their guide to how much you need to abrade its very easy to sand it off in places unless the hull was very fair to begin with.
Here on the river it is simply not as good as Seajet.
When you get her out and wash her down you need to abrade again which can be just as hard as painting anti foul with a roller.
Unless you get a good key and clean up well it can flake off which then needs recoating.
We've seen increased anode wear on boats we've coated.

CW, if you ask for us to coat the LK in the future I will throw that 40' mast you've got your eye on into the river.

Whether it is right for you is the question. It won't suit everyone. Buy cheap anti fouling and haul every year and the benefits are marginal either way. Head off into the Big Blue yonder when hauling every year is not normal and it starts to make more sense. We haul here in Caribbean in the summer and sail in the winter. Diving gear means you can scrub it. Normal UK anti fouling doesn't work so well here. American anti fouling paint works but it's incredibly pricey. Coppercoat then starts to make sense. Ours has been on four years and now needs a good abrade. We have lots of slime and some barnacles. We haul put in two weeks for the summer

 

[Simondjuk]

Personally I hate the stuff.
Can be a pain to apply all four coats in a day.
Once its gone off you still need to abrade it.
Using their guide to how much you need to abrade its very easy to sand it off in places unless the hull was very fair to begin with.
Here on the river it is simply not as good as Seajet.
When you get her out and wash her down you need to abrade again which can be just as hard as painting anti foul with a roller.
Unless you get a good key and clean up well it can flake off which then needs recoating.
We've seen increased anode wear on boats we've coated.

CW, if you ask for us to coat the LK in the future I will throw that 40' mast you've got your eye on into the river.

You don't have to paint the entire boat in one day, just all four coats on the part you paint, which could be one side of it.

You don't have to abrade it when first applied but a light burnish before launch may give improved performance. If you choose to burnish, you need only do so very lightly. If you go through, you've way over done it.

You should not burnish every year, only once or twice in its lifetime if performance drops off.

Is there any left to work as well as AF after all that abrading?

Not preparing the substrate properly is a failure of the person doing the work, not of the product.

Not sure why it should increase anode wear, it certainly hasn't on my boat. My Volvo 120 anode has taken 4 years to erode by just over 50%, which I think is extremely modest.

 

[Simondjuk]

I don't understand what you're saying so I would guess that you're completely right and you should 100% go with Coppercoat. Or not, if you were arguing that you shouldn't. But when you get that antifoul for £8 let me have a tin, I'll pay you a tenner and we'll both be sorted.

What I was saying is that until and unless I can buy sufficient antifoul for a 40 foot boat for £24, your assertion that it's possible to antifoul for 3% of the cost of Coppercoat seems to be hugely optimistic.

 

[langstonelayabout]

I can't pay £35 a tin though. If I do I'll be well over your 3% AF versus CC cost. I need enough for a 40 footer for £24 to make that percentage against the £800 my CC cost. Say, 3 tins will just do it, so I need to buy at £8 a tin and was hoping to know where I can do that in case I change my mind on the CC at some point.

If I have to spend £105 on 3 tins, that's 13% of the cost of my CC and not so tempting as I'm losing before the end of year 8 and means my 12 year old CC, which is still going strong, has already saved me spending 56% more on £35 a tin antifoul in those 12 years.

I doubt I can get £35 a tin antifoul, I've saved an annual chore each season for the last 12 years, I've spent up to 4 years straight afloat without a single lift, and I reckon my CC has many years life left in it yet. So you've sold me, even by comparison with cheaper antifoul than I've ever seen, my CC is already a bargain, and will become an even bigger one each year for several more years yet.

And whilst it may financially be a bargain, where I keep my boat CC is as useful as a chocolate teapot and therefore ineffective and expensive.

Suggest you make sure that those keeping their boats near yours are happy with the performance of CC before applying it.

 

[neil1967]

We used to keep our current (copper coated) yacht in Portsmouth harbour, up near Hardway, and the performance of the copper coat was certainly comparable with the performance of the soft antifoul that we used on our previous non copper coated yacht, also in Portsmouth, albeit she was moored near Haslar. We're happy with the decision we made.......

 

[JumbleDuck]

People talk about the huge effort in applying conventional antifoul - it takes the pair of us 5-6 hours which includes changing anodes and tidying the waterline, this time investment is despite us having a large underwater area to do and me being genetically work shy. Whole operation costs about £80 - about 3% of the cost of coppercoat. Sure there's a lift but we come out for anodes and maybe a bit of work most years, if not we could pay £20 for a day on the scrubbing posts. Seems to me coppercoat is a bit of an emotional rather than rational purchase, nothing wrong with that at all, it's a useful way of titivating the beloved, but not a cost effective one.

I'm with you, for my situation. The boat is out of the water for half the year anyway, so antifouling incurs no extra lift charges. Application of whatever eroding antifouling I can get cheap (it was Akso-Nobel "Nautical" this year, bought at Port Edgar for £35) takes me about two hours in total and costs additionally a pair of rubber gloves and a roller and some masking tape, for about fifteen quid.

So, overall, antifouling costs me fifty quid per annum plus two hours of my time. At the end of the season there is a little sliming but no weed and no barnacles. The slime and the remains of the anitifouling get removed, at no extra charge, by the yard's diesel pressure washer on lift-out.

If the boat was going to be afloat year round then I might consider coppercoat, but even with D-I-Y application it would cost me around ten years' worth of antifouling and if she needs to be lifted out for de-sliming and burnishing anyway ...

It might well be different still if I sailed in an area where one coat of cheap antifouling was not enough.