Copper coat , not again

sailaboutvic

sailaboutvic

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We started work on getting the boat ready for Copper coat , last time we did this was in 2013 and if it Wasn't that copper coat worked well on our last boat we did , after read Richard S problem he had , we probably wouldn't had gone for it .
This is the first time in 10 year we stopped sailing so early normally we don't stop till Late Nov/ Dec so we area bit down but if all goes to plain ( when does it all go the plain when it comes to boat? ) we hoping to get a another mouth or two before ending our season .
So what happening?
Well last time we did all the work our self , but seven years older we didn't fancy removing the A/F this time , so we have a yard in Sicily to do it ,
We was hauled out on Thursday , and it didn't start well , we was told there was 2 mts we draw 1.85 , two boat length from the Crane we went aground , so we had to be hand pulled through soft mud .
Saturday one guy started but after just off two hours he walked off saying it was too hard ,
but it's now moving alone , Monday he returned and today we had two guys on the job at times three .
three parts on one side been remove although it still need going over to get rid of parts of the under coat that are still visible.

copper coat Italy is supplying it , as we was advise by copper coat UK it would be cheaper as the carriage was quite high ,
copper coat Italy had been very help full much more the their Parent company in the UK ,
Who I felt wasn't very forward with answers to my question , answer they should know , examples what would be best epoxy to use and compatible with CC on my iron keel ,solvent or non solvent epoxy I got a lecture on if I went to the pub what lager would I choose, to be honesty if it not that We used copper coat before and know how work and to apply it , at that point I think I would had walked away , last time I found them very helpful .
I think Ewan need to have a word with his staff , people who are using it for the first time need all the info And help to get it right .
Its a bit frustrating for us we use to doing work our self and getting on with it so sitting about waiting is a bit hard to get use to , although we are working on other jobs like replacing sea cock and sorting out water tanks . While we wait for the AF job to finish .
I report back how the job going ,
 

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sailaboutvic said:
We started work on getting the boat ready for Copper coat , last time we did this was in 2013 and if it Wasn't that copper coat worked well on our last boat we did , after read Richard S problem he had , we probably wouldn't had gone for it .
This is the first time in 10 year we stopped sailing so early normally we don't stop till Late Nov/ Dec so we area bit down but if all goes to plain ( when does it all go the plain when it comes to boat? ) we hoping to get a another mouth or two before ending our season .
So what happening?
Well last time we did all the work our self , but seven years older we didn't fancy removing the A/F this time , so we have a yard in Sicily to do it ,
We was hauled out on Thursday , and it didn't start well , we was told there was 2 mts we draw 1.85 , two boat length from the Crane we went aground , so we had to be hand pulled through soft mud .
Saturday one guy started but after just off two hours he walked off saying it was too hard ,
but it's now moving alone , Monday he returned and today we had two guys on the job at times three .
three parts on one side been remove although it still need going over to get rid of parts of the under coat that are still visible.

copper coat Italy is supplying it , as we was advise by copper coat UK it would be cheaper as the carriage was quite high ,
copper coat Italy had been very help full much more the their Parent company in the UK ,
Who I felt wasn't very forward with answers to my question , answer they should know , examples what would be best epoxy to use and compatible with CC on my iron keel ,solvent or non solvent epoxy I got a lecture on if I went to the pub what lager would I choose, to be honesty if it not that We used copper coat before and know how work and to apply it , at that point I think I would had walked away , last time I found them very helpful .
I think Ewan need to have a word with his staff , people who are using it for the first time need all the info And help to get it right .
Its a bit frustrating for us we use to doing work our self and getting on with it so sitting about waiting is a bit hard to get use to , although we are working on other jobs like replacing sea cock and sorting out water tanks . While we wait for the AF job to finish .
I report back how the job going ,
Click to expand...

OK to answer your epoxy Q from memory:

The end result is the same - you will end up with epoxy under your CopperCoat.
Choose based on labour availability / weather.

Non solvented.
Wet film thickness about 80-100 microns, dry film thickness - the same. Nothing evaporates, it is non solvented.
3 coats on a keel would be a good job. Use different colours. 250 microns ish of epoxy. 1/4 of a mm.
But......
You must overcoat within 24 hours and you must get the CopperCoat on within 24 hours of that so all the layers bond together. If they cure they are like glass and you have a problem. In italy you may get 2 coats a day done. so day 1 a coat in the evening, day 2 a morning and evening coat, day 3 your 5 coats of CopperCoat.

Solvented.
Wet film thickness about 80-100 microns, dry film thickness - 35-40 microns. So you need 6-8 coats to get the same thickness of epoxy. You can overcoat 6 months later if you like as it dries matt.
But.......
You mustn't overcoat too soon as you will get solvent entrapment which will bubble your CopperCoat. You need to leave at least a week before you put the CopperCoat on.

Those thickness are indicative but the point is you will need more coats of solvented - twice as many or more - and you have to beware of solvent entrapment.

They will almost certainly have an agreement with the guy in italy to sell all the Italian CopperCoat, and every query like this takes them time. You can see why they get fed up of dealing with every query.
 
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Elessar said:
OK to answer your epoxy Q from memory:

The end result is the same - you will end up with epoxy under your CopperCoat.
Choose based on labour availability / weather.

Non solvented.
Wet film thickness about 80-100 microns, dry film thickness - the same. Nothing evaporates, it is non solvented.
3 coats on a keel would be a good job. Use different colours. 250 microns ish of epoxy. 1/4 of a mm.
But......
You must overcoat within 24 hours and you must get the CopperCoat on within 24 hours of that so all the layers bond together. If they cure they are like glass and you have a problem. In italy you may get 2 coats a day done. so day 1 a coat in the evening, day 2 a morning and evening coat, day 3 your 5 coats of CopperCoat.

Solvented.
Wet film thickness about 80-100 microns, dry film thickness - 35-40 microns. So you need 6-8 coats to get the same thickness of epoxy. You can overcoat 6 months later if you like as it dries matt.
But.......
You mustn't overcoat too soon as you will get solvent entrapment which will bubble your CopperCoat. You need to leave at least a week before you put the CopperCoat on.

Those thickness are indicative but the point is you will need more coats of solvented - twice as many or more - and you have to beware of solvent entrapment.

They will almost certainly have an agreement with the guy in italy to sell all the Italian CopperCoat, and every query like this takes them time. You can see why they get fed up of dealing with every query.
Click to expand...

Hi and thanks for the info ,
Passerall kindly email me a quite a long email , as this was is job once upon a time ,
Thanks again Peter , I think now I know as much as the CC guy , with your and his info when it comes to epoxy , not sure how we stand on Lager . :) .
I understand what you meant re me getting it else where and asking them for info , there two points here .
1 ...it was them who suggestion I got it from Italy plus there lost nothing out of the sale maybe a 15% or 20% discount , it's still money in their pocket
2... when I asked them for info at that point there didn't know where I was buying it from .
I found UK company's aren't that for coming with info and there customer services need a lot improvement compare to company in Europe .
And they have a bit of a language barrier to deal with too .

Copper coat are getting some bad reviews, here and else where which they
know about , so one would think they would do their best to make sure their product is applied in the right way .

I was told also that all epoxy are the same not matter what by CC
Personally I don't know if that true or not , but what Wessex and West have told Me , is that isn't true ,
Who to believe.
As far as the product, we found it works petty good in the Med , although I do dive every so often and wipe the slim off , which is why I am using it again .
 
sailaboutvic said:
Stage 1 finish but still. Long way to go
Click to expand...

You've done a great job!

Another tip.
Don't paint the rudder or the keel when you paint the boat.
This will make your painting day a lot shorter.
In fact, if you are worried about the 5 coats as the days get shorter, paint half the boat. You can do half the boat, not half the coats.
Then after 4 or 5 days have the chocks moved.
You can then paint the chocks, the rudder and the keel. You can do a sensible size of mix not a tiny one that's hard to get right.
 
Elessar said:
You've done a great job!

Another tip.
Don't paint the rudder or the keel when you paint the boat.
This will make your painting day a lot shorter.
In fact, if you are worried about the 5 coats as the days get shorter, paint half the boat. You can do half the boat, not half the coats.
Then after 4 or 5 days have the chocks moved.
You can then paint the chocks, the rudder and the keel. You can do a sensible size of mix not a tiny one that's hard to get right.
Click to expand...

We plain to do as we did last time when we did our Dufour , we just did the hull and left has you said the rudder , keel and patches .
Between my partner mixing and me apply we did the whole hull in a day .
Job for over the weekend is the new water line .
 

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:encouragement:
sailaboutvic said:
We started work on getting the boat ready for Copper coat , last time we did this was in 2013 and if it Wasn't that copper coat worked well on our last boat we did , after read Richard S problem he had , we probably wouldn't had gone for it .
This is the first time in 10 year we stopped sailing so early normally we don't stop till Late Nov/ Dec so we area bit down but if all goes to plain ( when does it all go the plain when it comes to boat? ) we hoping to get a another mouth or two before ending our season .
So what happening?
Well last time we did all the work our self , but seven years older we didn't fancy removing the A/F this time , so we have a yard in Sicily to do it ,
We was hauled out on Thursday , and it didn't start well , we was told there was 2 mts we draw 1.85 , two boat length from the Crane we went aground , so we had to be hand pulled through soft mud .
Saturday one guy started but after just off two hours he walked off saying it was too hard ,
but it's now moving alone , Monday he returned and today we had two guys on the job at times three .
three parts on one side been remove although it still need going over to get rid of parts of the under coat that are still visible.

copper coat Italy is supplying it , as we was advise by copper coat UK it would be cheaper as the carriage was quite high ,
copper coat Italy had been very help full much more the their Parent company in the UK ,
Who I felt wasn't very forward with answers to my question , answer they should know , examples what would be best epoxy to use and compatible with CC on my iron keel ,solvent or non solvent epoxy I got a lecture on if I went to the pub what lager would I choose, to be honesty if it not that We used copper coat before and know how work and to apply it , at that point I think I would had walked away , last time I found them very helpful .
I think Ewan need to have a word with his staff , people who are using it for the first time need all the info And help to get it right .
Its a bit frustrating for us we use to doing work our self and getting on with it so sitting about waiting is a bit hard to get use to , although we are working on other jobs like replacing sea cock and sorting out water tanks . While we wait for the AF job to finish .
I report back how the job going ,
Click to expand...
 
sailaboutvic said:
We plain to do as we did last time when we did our Dufour , we just did the hull and left has you said the rudder , keel and patches .
Between my partner mixing and me apply we did the whole hull in a day .
Job for over the weekend is the new water line .
Click to expand...

Ok as my last tip was useless as you already knew it, like it or not you get another!

Waterline. Critical with Coppercoat as it has to last forever.

Blue 3m tape. Nothing else will do.

Stick a bit on at one end. Usually the stern. About 6”.

Then pull enough blue tape off the roll to do the whole side of the boat.

Pull it tight and, eying along the tape, walk into the bow. Keep it tight and move your hand up and down if needed to get it right.

If it’s wrong, walk out to unstick it and do it again. As many times as it takes.

If it’s right, push it hard all the way along the boat with you fingers.

If you put it on an inch at a time you will have a wobbly waterline. You have to do the whole boat in one swoop. Don’t worry about the old line. A straight waterline 1/2” too high will never catch your eye. A wobbly waterline will every time you look at your boat.

Then.....

Fold sandpaper in half a rough up the gel coat up to the tape. Carefully and slowly. If you accidentally sand the tape, put tape over that bit to ensure a clean line.

Spend hours getting the waterline right and never settle for “that will do”. It’s the only bit of the Coppercoat you normally. see.
 
Elessar said:
Ok as my last tip was useless as you already knew it, like it or not you get another!

Waterline. Critical with Coppercoat as it has to last forever.

Blue 3m tape. Nothing else will do.

Stick a bit on at one end. Usually the stern. About 6”.

Then pull enough blue tape off the roll to do the whole side of the boat.

Pull it tight and, eying along the tape, walk into the bow. Keep it tight and move your hand up and down if needed to get it right.

If it’s wrong, walk out to unstick it and do it again. As many times as it takes.

If it’s right, push it hard all the way along the boat with you fingers.

If you put it on an inch at a time you will have a wobbly waterline. You have to do the whole boat in one swoop. Don’t worry about the old line. A straight waterline 1/2” too high will never catch your eye. A wobbly waterline will every time you look at your boat.

Then.....

Fold sandpaper in half a rough up the gel coat up to the tape. Carefully and slowly. If you accidentally sand the tape, put tape over that bit to ensure a clean line.

Spend hours getting the waterline right and never settle for “that will do”. It’s the only bit of the Coppercoat you normally. see.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip .
 
+1 on the waterline being crucial.
A laser level is useful.
If it comes with a tame building surveyor, better still!
 
zoidberg said:
I've no dog in this fight, but I encountered this....

Click to expand...

Yes some people have had problem with copper coat , RichardS from here for one , but I can only go by my experience we had and the boat which we apply it on has had copper coat for seven years , the new owner reported last year he hauled out after being in the water for two years , there was a little white worm here and there but nothing to talk about , but He did have a slime coat all over
When we first decided to apply CC awe plain not to get hauled out for several years the truth is most years we had to come out for some reason , problem with prop , saildrive oil seal but the other side we was only out for a short time and there was none of that AF to be done .

Going back to the Video you posted , if I was that guy I too wouldn't be happy , but some thing some where had gone wrong badly because as we sew in the video the parts that was redone worked well .
So it had to do two things , the mixing or the product was off .

We have friends on the other side of the pond , they also having a problem with there's .
 
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It’s a big boat painted all in one go. They should have done half the boat at a time as it looks like it was allowed to dry between coats. You have to do wet on tacky. The fact that the patches worked fine show it was poor application not anything wrong with the boat or where the boat is.
 
It's now been 10 day since we was hauled out ,
Copper coat arrived late yesterday from CC Rome ,
We use a two pack paint for the new water line , we had a few problem , the rollers kept falling a part and the tipping off was leaving to many brush markers in the end we brought the best quality brush we couldn find and brushed it on , and it's turning out fine .
Weather isnt playing ball with rain and thunderstorm keep being forecaster but nothing happening , so we now covered the side , looking like Friday we give it a go ,

We also brought plastic and covered the side
 

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It's taken 10 hours with just two and at last the hull finish , just leave rudder keel and the patches to do .
She so shiny that the photos look as if we missed part of it . ?
Working out the full costing , will let you all know .
 

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