Conversion to single line reefing

[B27]

With a balance block system, the total ,movement of rope through cringles is the same as with 2-line reefing.
With a no-balance block system, the length of rope which moves through the leach cringle also moves through the luff cringle. So typically there is a lot more friction. Even if the cringles are replaced by sheaves, the rope is typically touching the sail and creating friction.

A good balance block system can work well without having heavy sheaves hanging around the sail in light airs.

The devil is in the detail, a lot of single line systems seem to turn into hard work when push comes to shove.
It's more important to make your system work as well as it can, than to pick the 'best' system' and put up with friction.

Personally, I have 2-line reefing, with a 2:1 block in the boom for the first reef leach. I like that because I can get a pretty solid reef in easily and quickly, I don't even need to touch the topping lift. It's easier to lift the boom with the reef line than with the topping lift.

Any system with blocks in the boom is easily ruined by a twist or two though.

Boats vary a lot and we often have to work around what previous owners have passed on to us. Bless 'em!

 

[steveeasy]

Tensioning the foot is especially important when reefing, as want the sail as flat as possible.

I personally am a great advocate of single line reefing, which works well on our boat. This has eyes on the mast for the reef lines, which are carefully positioned at different heights above the gooseneck to match the height of the stack sliders below.

Yes you are of course correct. I was referring to

The suggestion for using the Tides track was because it is so much better than using the traditional plastic slugs in aluminium. As others have said single lie reefing introduces more friction but that is more than offset by the reduced friction of the stainless sliders in the new track. Using spectacles and blocks at the cringles also helps as does leading the line down to the mast base forward through a fairlead on the mast. The new bit of track needs to start at the bottom of your existing rivetted on extrusion to leave a "gate" for the new track to enter the old. The new track only needs to be level so that the "flap" as it is termed in the instructions can be attached using screws and plates inside the track. The flap terminates at the gooseneck and has a gate at that point. So when reefing the sliders can go almost down to the gooseneck without coming out.

Hope that makes sense.

Hi Tranona,
Yes it makes sense and I guess it works very well indeed. Ill look at the drawings and instructions again. Did you send of for the discs to measure the existing track dimensions?. Out of interest what was the cost per mtr to install the Track and SS sliders ?. Is this something you have seen used before?. I guess it makes raising the main so much easier and dropping the main quite satisfying indeed if it drops with ease.
Steveeasy

 

[steveeasy]

Tensioning the foot is especially important when reefing, as want the sail as flat as possible.

I personally am a great advocate of single line reefing, which works well on our boat. This has eyes on the mast for the reef lines, which are carefully positioned at different heights above the gooseneck to match the height of the stack sliders below.

Yes you are of course correct. I was really meaning one does not need to tension using the outhaul, the foot is tensioned by the reefing line instead, if it is correctly positioned.
Steveeasy

 

[Daydream believer]

A good balance block system can work well without having heavy sheaves hanging around the sail in light airs.

Are you suggesting that a balance block system reduces the number of blocks against a system without balance blocks-as in---quote-"without having heavy sheaves hanging around the sail in light airs". Can you explain that one please?

 

[B27]

You need to look at the different systems and work out how much string is moving how far past potential sources of friction, going around blocks etc. There are several variations of each system, so it's dangerous to generalise.
But broadly, the point of balance blocks is the work done to pull in one end of the sail is not increased by friction at the other end of the sail, only by running around a couple of ball bearing blocks.

Don't under estimate the friction from running past the sail, particularly for the second reef.
Also if the luff reefs fully before the leach, the line can then be running at a bad angle into the sheave near the gooseneck, so friction is high and the leach doesn't get pulled properly tight.

That's why Selden fit elaborate 'shuttle blocks' which I suspect some owners don't even realise are in their boom.

I think two lines is simplest and most efficient, at the expense of extra deck organiser sheaves and jammers.
Although personally, I'm using a plain old, 'no moving parts' cleat for the tack lines, which seems fine on a small boat. I could 're-purpose' spinnaker halyard and pole-up jammer for the second reef, as I don't foresee having the kite up with two reefs in. YMMV.

 

[Tranona]

Yes you are of course correct. I was referring to

Hi Tranona,
Yes it makes sense and I guess it works very well indeed. Ill look at the drawings and instructions again. Did you send of for the discs to measure the existing track dimensions?. Out of interest what was the cost per mtr to install the Track and SS sliders ?. Is this something you have seen used before?. I guess it makes raising the main so much easier and dropping the main quite satisfying indeed if it drops with ease.
Steveeasy

Rather lucky where I live as Tides European office is 5 minutes drive away! Naturally the product is popular locally, particularly with sailmakers like Kemps, Crusader and Saunders shaft-seals.co.uk/product-category/tides-sailtrack/ before I decided I posted for experiences on here and 100% positive feedback. I have a set of the discs, but a call to the office and they will send you a set and a sample of the track. The procedure is to use the discs to determine the track profile, measure the length, add a bit extra at the top and they get it made in Florida with a typical 2-3 week delivery. Comes with sliders and headboard fitting so only extra thing to do is attach the fittings to your sail instead of the slugs. DIY job, but I had mine done by Kemps as it was a new sail.

Priced by the foot of course! - I paid I think £38 earlier this year but may have gone up. So total for your mast would guess about £1k. Looks a bit daunting to fit but actually far easier than I expected. Took a morning to trial fit, make adjustment to actual length, install and refit the mainsail. The difference is amazing compared with the sticky slugs.

if you are around Poole you are welcome to try mine.

 

[Tranona]

How much does the Tides track system cost?

See the response above

 

[wilkinsonsails]

Just put the lower sliders below the reefs on a lacing line through the eyelets and then thru the slides .When the luff is lowered the line slacks off leaving the slides at the gate position.You shouldn’t have to add track for that .

 

[B27]

See the response above

Thanks!

 

[Daydream believer]

Also if the luff reefs fully before the leach, the line can then be running at a bad angle into the sheave near the gooseneck, so friction is high and the leach doesn't get pulled properly tight.

It is all down to technique
When reefing one should not let the halyard off fully until the leech is down tight. People make the mistake of putting a mark on the halyard & just letting it off to that point.
I have a piece of black tape on the mast. I release the halyard clutch & pull in the reef line. As the sail comes down the relevant full length batten car begins to approach the mark on the sail. At this point I part close the clutch. I put the reef line on the winch as it gets harder to pull. Then winch in the reef line to get the leech in. Then having done that wind down the luff the last 18 inches, releasing more halyard under tension as required, until the batten car is at the black mark.. That stops the luff block jamming on the gooseneck & keeps the leech tight.
Easier to do than describe. No need to have any extra friction from internal blocks.

 

[B27]

I used to race on a boat where putting in a reef was more like bish, bash, bosh in the middle of a tack.

 

[steveeasy]

Simpler to implement but not to explain:
Take a length of line tied to the lowest slider, run it through the lowest cringle then back through the lowest slider and up to the second slider. Tie it off at the second slider so the line is taught when the full sail is hoisted.
When the second slider is low, the line is slack, allowing the reef to fold. When the second line is at its normal height, the sail is kept up to the mast at the lowest cringle.

Incidentally, I use single line reefing on 1st reef and find it quite satisfactory. There's a lot of string and it takes a while to pull it all in but it works.

Thanks for the above. Not sure I still fully understand what you are suggesting and note a couple of other posts have suggested something similar.
Steveeasy

 

[steveeasy]

well plenty of useful advice. much appreciated.

Steveeasy

 

[chris-s]

This setup has worked well for us so far after we reinstated it on our Oceanis. The wife can put a reef in by hand without having to leave the cockpit.



Chris

 

[cpedw]

Thanks for the above. Not sure I still fully understand what you are suggesting and note a couple of other posts have suggested something similar.
Steveeasy

Post 28 is another description of the same thing I think.

 

[wilkinsonsails]

Re post 28 No it’s not a description of post 34 .I will find a pic and post it later..Basically the lower slides are on a loose lacing not attached to the sail . When the luff is taut .The lacing line holds the slides to the mast .When the halyard is lowered,the lacing line slacks off leaving the slides at the track gate and allowing the luff reef eye to come down to the boom .Usually better with pairs of slide eyelets .

 

[cpedw]

I've been misunderstood - not for the first time. I was comparing my post 12

Simpler to implement but not to explain:
Take a length of line tied to the lowest slider, run it through the lowest cringle then back through the lowest slider and up to the second slider. Tie it off at the second slider so the line is taught when the full sail is hoisted.
When the second slider is low, the line is slack, allowing the reef to fold. When the second line is at its normal height, the sail is kept up to the mast at the lowest cringle.

Incidentally, I use single line reefing on 1st reef and find it quite satisfactory. There's a lot of string and it takes a while to pull it all in but it works.

with wilkinsonsails' 28

Just put the lower sliders below the reefs on a lacing line through the eyelets and then thru the slides .When the luff is lowered the line slacks off leaving the slides at the gate position.You shouldn’t have to add track for that .

I think they are both describing a similar solution to the problem of sail slides preventing the reefed tack getting down to the boom, nothing particularly to do with single line or other slab reefing.