Conversion to single line reefing

[steveeasy]

Hi,
Ive decided I would like to change the reefing set up I have on my boat. Currently its slab reefed. I wish to change it to single line reefing. When the mast comes out I intend to fit a new mast ring. I am going to use the existing boom with the reefing lines running thru it but exiting thru the top of the boom. Ill refit the pulleys for two reefing lines only.

Now the little problem. My mainsail has sliders. Annoyingly the mast track has around a foot missing above the boom. I suspect the track was originally for a bolt rope. the sliders work fine, but when I put a reef in the sliders come out the track and causes a little untidiness. Not too difficult to deal with it your at the mast but I dont want to be. I wish to be able to lower the main. add a reef from the cockpit.

So im wondering if there is a way round this problem. I need to add a track below the bolt rope track. with a gate I can open to install the sliders. ive considered altering the main to bolt rope but id still get a loose main below the reefing point when I drop this. so I dont really see that a resolution. I wondered with all the expertise here you may have some ideas other than changing the whole mast track.

Thanks
steveeasy

 

[Tranona]

My first reaction was to fit one of these tidesmarine.com/pdf/sailtrack/sailtrack_catalog.pdf as I have just done. The only slight reservation I have is that as it fits into the existing track you will need a spacer between the bottom of the and a piece of plain track to support the lower part of the new track. Don't think I have seen a mast like that with the track extrusion rivetted on. On the normal Proctor spar the track is part of the main extrusion and the lower slot is the same level as the bottom of the track.

If you can fit it the new track makes raising, reefing and dropping so much easier because of the lack of friction. so far the best bit of kit I have added to the rig.

 

[B27]

If you can find some track which takes the same sliders, someone could splice that onto the existing, you'd have to fabricate spacers to line it up. You might weld the old and new track together, or just butt it and reinforce.
I think there are various sizes of track for T sliders, but there's some on ebay from dinghy jib tracks.

Alloy Track

 

[steveeasy]

My first reaction was to fit one of these tidesmarine.com/pdf/sailtrack/sailtrack_catalog.pdf as I have just done. The only slight reservation I have is that as it fits into the existing track you will need a spacer between the bottom of the and a piece of plain track to support the lower part of the new track. Don't think I have seen a mast like that with the track extrusion rivetted on. On the normal Proctor spar the track is part of the main extrusion and the lower slot is the same level as the bottom of the track.

If you can fit it the new track makes raising, reefing and dropping so much easier because of the lack of friction. so far the best bit of kit I have added to the rig.

Hi Tranona,
Thanks for this. What you are proposing is I mount a new track on the existing one. id not considered that option. I suspect It was normal to have a gap to aid the rope feeding in to the groove when raising the mainsail. It must have proved a little difficult lowering the sail though and indeed when reefing even if your at the mast.

Probably the easiest option is to replace the mast but im not sure thats an option this year. If I could find the same track then as B27 suggests i may be able to get someone to splice it on. I suppose I could fit the sliders at the very bottom of the track and do away with the need to create a gate. The sail does need to drop as low as possible though. Not sure how this is achieved fully on other boats given most sails have a dozen if not more sliders. all food for thought.

Steveeasy

 

[steveeasy]

If you can find some track which takes the same sliders, someone could splice that onto the existing, you'd have to fabricate spacers to line it up. You might weld the old and new track together, or just butt it and reinforce.
I think there are various sizes of track for T sliders, but there's some on ebay from dinghy jib tracks.

Alloy Track

Hi B27
Yes thats an option too. ill search around. perhaps ill find a similar profile for boltrope track.

Steveeasy

 

[William_H]

Pageant 23 reefing A recent post on this very subject.
I would suggest forget single line reefing. Try 2 line on your first reef. I presume here you have to hook the tack over a horn to attach the reef tack eyelet. Just fit a line from a point on the mast below and ahead of gooseneck that goes up through the reef tack eyelet and back down to a saddle or sheave mounted again forward and below gooseneck then down to a turning block back to cockpit. Yes slugs will fall out but at least you will be able to reef (one) from cockpit on run.
Yes perhaps fill in lost track as in other post. Make it easier for stowage of main sail anyway. (you will need shaped cover for main sail) The tack reefing line should pull the tack eyelet at 45 degrees forward and down to pull eyelet forward in line with mast track so no load on slugs. ol'will

 

[Daydream believer]

You may find that you do not have to alter the mast at all. Just remove the sliders on the sail nearest the reef cringle (Just remove them from the track to experiment at first). This will allow you to pull a fold of the sail down past the rest of the sail stack. You will not get right down to the gooseneck, but may not have to. Fit some spectacles through the reef cringle . (2 rings, a dynema soft shackle through the cringle such that the rings do not pull through) You will have to experiment with some cord & vary the length first to get it set up whilst the sail is down. Then fit a free running pulley to one of the rings, such that when the sail is in the reefed position the pulley is somewhere above the gooseneck.
Your single line can now come up through the boom, through the pulley, down through a guide on the mast (to keep it forward) & down to the deck
Once you have decided on the right positions etc you can refit the sail sliders to the optimum positions
Remember, the closer the sail is to the gooseneck the less it will pull aft when you reef, which is something to be avoided

 

[Dutch01527]

Would the gaps between sliders make it possible to rig a wire strop with a tensioning fitting, a bit like a guard rail, between the pin in the gooseneck. Sliders on sliding rings over the wire. Then reef down to the pin ( stronger than current one). You would lose a foot of reef and maybe have to go to the second reef a bit earlier but it would secure the loose sail.

Also another another vote here for avoiding single line reefing. I have always found it has more friction and loose line than is necessary. I prefer two line reefing both running back to the cockpit. One line for the clew and one for the tack.

 

[Tranona]

Hi Tranona,
Thanks for this. What you are proposing is I mount a new track on the existing one. id not considered that option. I suspect It was normal to have a gap to aid the rope feeding in to the groove when raising the mainsail. It must have proved a little difficult lowering the sail though and indeed when reefing even if your at the mast.

Probably the easiest option is to replace the mast but im not sure thats an option this year. If I could find the same track then as B27 suggests i may be able to get someone to splice it on. I suppose I could fit the sliders at the very bottom of the track and do away with the need to create a gate. The sail does need to drop as low as possible though. Not sure how this is achieved fully on other boats given most sails have a dozen if not more sliders. all food for thought.

Steveeasy

The suggestion for using the Tides track was because it is so much better than using the traditional plastic slugs in aluminium. As others have said single lie reefing introduces more friction but that is more than offset by the reduced friction of the stainless sliders in the new track. Using spectacles and blocks at the cringles also helps as does leading the line down to the mast base forward through a fairlead on the mast. The new bit of track needs to start at the bottom of your existing rivetted on extrusion to leave a "gate" for the new track to enter the old. The new track only needs to be level so that the "flap" as it is termed in the instructions can be attached using screws and plates inside the track. The flap terminates at the gooseneck and has a gate at that point. So when reefing the sliders can go almost down to the gooseneck without coming out.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[steveeasy]

Would the gaps between sliders make it possible to rig a wire strop with a tensioning fitting, a bit like a guard rail, between the pin in the gooseneck. Sliders on sliding rings over the wire. Then reef down to the pin ( stronger than current one). You would lose a foot of reef and maybe have to go to the second reef a bit earlier but it would secure the loose sail.

Also another another vote here for avoiding single line reefing. I have always found it has more friction and loose line than is necessary. I prefer two line reefing both running back to the cockpit. One line for the clew and one for the tack.

That’s a novel idea and worth some thought. Might be difficult when tensioning the foot of the sail but then with a reef in that’s not quite such an issue.
Steveeasy

 

[dunedin]

That’s a novel idea and worth some thought. Might be difficult when tensioning the foot of the sail but then with a reef in that’s not quite such an issue.
Steveeasy

Tensioning the foot is especially important when reefing, as want the sail as flat as possible.

I personally am a great advocate of single line reefing, which works well on our boat. This has eyes on the mast for the reef lines, which are carefully positioned at different heights above the gooseneck to match the height of the stack sliders below.

 

[cpedw]

Simpler to implement but not to explain:
Take a length of line tied to the lowest slider, run it through the lowest cringle then back through the lowest slider and up to the second slider. Tie it off at the second slider so the line is taught when the full sail is hoisted.
When the second slider is low, the line is slack, allowing the reef to fold. When the second line is at its normal height, the sail is kept up to the mast at the lowest cringle.

Incidentally, I use single line reefing on 1st reef and find it quite satisfactory. There's a lot of string and it takes a while to pull it all in but it works.

 

[B27]

How much does the Tides track system cost?

You can get glue-on plastic sail track for bolt ropes, it's used on carbon masts like in the 49er.
I don't know what other sail tracks are available.
(this brings back some memories of joining brass track on a wooden mast!)
The trick with joining tracks is to fix both bits securely to a connecting piece of some sort, then you only have to de-burr the edges and sliders will slide.
I've mended a track on a carbon mast
I've converted my first reef to two line operation from the cockpit, with slides.
I could do with improving the gate, but it works and I think it's worth doing..
I can reef and shake out a reef without drama, but sometimes to get the slides upwards past the gate, it pays to make the sail flap a bit at the key moment.

I've sailed a few boats with single line reefing, most of them are awful, Pete's boat is brilliant with the proper balance block system in the boom, but I sort of prefer two line, as it's direct, you pull a string, it does one thing and you can see it working. Or see it's trying to tangle or stick or whatever.

 

[Gadget257]

I have an old Kemp roller boom and asked a similar question at the SBS to All Spar who quoted me circa £500 to covert it to two single line in boom reef (which will retain the tentson in the foot). Which I thought was very reasonable compared to a new Selden boom with single line costing £1600.

 

[Daydream believer]

sailed a few boats with single line reefing, most of them are awful, Pete's boat is brilliant with the proper balance block system in the boom, but I sort of prefer two line, as it's direct, you pull a string, it does one thing and you can see it working. Or see it's trying to tangle or stick or whatever.

There is no point in having balance blocks in smaller boats & it only leads to problems if a reef line snaps etc. as it is difficult to repair at sea. Balance blocks do not give a mechanical advantage. I rigged up a simple system in my workshop with spring balances to prove what one can do by simple calculations. There is NO mechanical advantage.However, there is increased friction.
As for lots of extra line - It is just an extra couple of loops in a coil of rope. I do not see the issue that people keep raising on this. Unless they are the " Throw it on the cockpit floor & trip up on it later" brigade

 

[dunedin]

There is no point in having balance blocks in smaller boats ....

I agree, and indeed I don't see any need for in boom blocks on bigger boats either, if the reef points are in the right place and using dyneema cored reefing lines which don't stretch.
No blocks on our c.40 footer, and sailed long distance on performance 45 footer with similar no in-boom blocks. They seem to be unnecessary complexity.

 

[Daydream believer]

I agree, and indeed I don't see any need for in boom blocks on bigger boats either, if the reef points are in the right place and using dyneema cored reefing lines which don't stretch.
No blocks on our c.40 footer, and sailed long distance on performance 45 footer with similar no in-boom blocks. They seem to be unnecessary complexity.

You are correct
I think that the solution is to have a correctly sized reef line. As you suggest, dynema on larger loaded sails. Pick a line that is less prone to kinking & twisting. Some lines are very bad for this & can cause the luff block to rotate & cause the line to cross. The spectacle needs to stop that, so a thick webbing helps here, to hold the block straight. Have decent quality bearing blocks at all changes of direction. Ensure that the rollers in the boom are free to run. Finally at deck level keep the run to the winch as straight as possible. Make sure that lines from the mast are not crossing each other between the deck organisers. A reef line passing down the mast behind a tight jib halyard is another point to watch if it is nipping it against the mast. The mainsail halyard needs to be free enough to allow the sail to drop or be raised when going through reef/unreef operations as well. When coiling the reef line do not just coil it like a 3 strand rope as this introduces twist in the line. It helps to disconnect the reef line at intervals & pull it back & forth to get any twists out of it.

 

[Dutch01527]

That’s a novel idea and worth some thought. Might be difficult when tensioning the foot of the sail but then with a reef in that’s not quite such an issue.
Steveeasy

If the pin at the bottom of the track was replaced with something like a double eye bolt with the reef line running through it. The reef could then be tensioned hard down to the eye.

 

[B27]

The advantage of balance blocks is that you don't pull all the string through a cringle. You are doing a lot less work in dragging line across sails and through ~180 degree turns.
That is the theory anyway!

 

[Daydream believer]

The advantage of balance blocks is that you don't pull all the string through a cringle. You are doing a lot less work in dragging line across sails and through ~180 degree turns.
That is the theory anyway!

With due respects. You are introducing 2 additional blocks into the boom for each set of reefs around which the reef lines have to rotate a full turn. Can you explain how that reduces friction? The reef line still has to go through the leech cringle & the luff line goes through a block as before. Can you explain the comment below

You are doing a lot less work in dragging line across sails and through ~180 degree turns.