Continuous Cruising

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Conclusion

There aren't any side decks aft of the pilot house.

I agree that the compromise of maximising living space at the expense of side decks is one worth making on what is designed to be a long term liveaboard boat. For standard pontoon berthing I don't think it will affect you too much as whoever attachs the bow line can easily walk back to the aft cockpit through the side door and the saloon to deal with the aft lines. A Nordhavn is a big heavy boat for its length and shouldn't get blown about too much so IMHO whoever is handling the lines has time to do this plus of course you have bow and sternthrusters to hold the boat steady. The only berthing situation where you might have a problem is in a typical Med stern-to berth where you have to walk the pick-up line from the quay forward in order to pull up the bow line and then the lack of side decks might be a problem. However most Med marinas have guys in dories who could pick up the bow lines for you and hand them to whoever is standing on the bow, providing you radio them in advance and ask for the assistance of course. Alternatively you might be able to handle the pick-up lines from the upper deck using a long boat hook but that might be a bit tricky. As I say, IMHO its a compromise well worth making and I'm sure you'll find a way around any berthing difficulties

 

[MapisM]

Interesting debate.
My view (very personal, and with all due respect for the OP stunning cruising machine) is that I hate with a passion the full wide body layout of some Nordhavn, but mostly for a different reason: the impossibility to walk from bow to stern without entering the saloon - possibly with wet/salty feet.
In this respect, the layout that Nordhavn calls asymmetric is a better compromise imho.
Though it's still annoying for Med mooring, because in cross wind it's the upwind bow line that you want to secure first and ASAP.
And obviously, the walkaround on just one side of the deck still leaves 50% chances of being on the wrong side...
All that said, for what a boar like the N40 is aimed at, I agree that the full wide body is probably a compromise worth making.

 

[MapisM]

Re: Conclusion

The stabiliser fins look nicely sized. She should be completely roll free underway!

+1.

TH, of course you are sure that the stab system is NOT zero speed, I assume?
I'm asking that because the fins shape and shaft position is the one typically used in zero speed fins.
Before zero speed fins were around, the shaft was closer to the fin center, to reduce the effort necessary to rotate the fins, allowing also for a faster fins movement (AOTBE).
STAR stabs work instead with a different logic, requiring the forward shaft position.
Now, it could well be that ABT (and maybe also other builders, I'm not sure), after they began building STAR systems, decided to use the same shafts/fins regardless of whether the rest of the equipment included the STAR functionality or not.
I just thought to mention anyway, just in case.
Regardless, that's a bit of good news in the event that you would like to upgrade the system, because I guess you could use the existing shafts and fins.
With my Naiad, I should throw away just about everything, which makes it a non starter from my viewpoint.

 

[jfm]

Re: Conclusion

+1. They sure look like zero speed fins. Maybe all that is needed to upgrade them, if they're not, is an electric pump and some new control gear/software. Poster Searanger Ancaster can do the former and of course ABT would need to provide the latter.

 

[TwoHooter]

No stopping this thread!

Interesting debate.
My view (very personal, and with all due respect for the OP stunning cruising machine) is that I hate with a passion the full wide body layout of some Nordhavn, but mostly for a different reason: the impossibility to walk from bow to stern without entering the saloon - possibly with wet/salty feet.
In this respect, the layout that Nordhavn calls asymmetric is a better compromise imho.
Though it's still annoying for Med mooring, because in cross wind it's the upwind bow line that you want to secure first and ASAP.
And obviously, the walkaround on just one side of the deck still leaves 50% chances of being on the wrong side...
All that said, for what a boar like the N40 is aimed at, I agree that the full wide body is probably a compromise worth making.

MapisM - I actually shared your views when I started looking at boats. Off the top of my head the 40 is the only Nordhavn model with a full width saloon and I didn't like it until I actually went aboard. The first Nordhavn my wife and I went aboard was a 57 and that has proper side decks port and starboard. The second and third boats we saw were a 43 and a 46 (the original Nordhavn classic) with the asymetric saloon layout and a single (starboard) side deck. None of those boats would get into Birdham Pool, and that's the sort of place we want to go. Well, you might squeeze the 43 and the 46 through the lock but I wouldn't want to. The 43 is the next size up from our 40. AFAIK there is only one on the market at the moment and it's priced at about £400k which is 33% above the budget I mentioned way back - and it's in the States, so obviously not VAT paid. A new 43 fully equipped and VAT paid would likely cost about £750k. The 46 is a lot cheaper, but doesn't have the same ease of access to the engine room, which I really wanted. So whilst I do understand why the lack of side decks would put some people off in our case we decided it wasn't a strong enough reason to turn our backs on the brand, and once we had been aboard our 40 there was no turning back!

+1. They sure look like zero speed fins. Maybe all that is needed to upgrade them, if they're not, is an electric pump and some new control gear/software. Poster Searanger Ancaster can do the former and of course ABT would need to provide the latter.

Well, that's interesting. I'll follow that up when I get a chance.

 

[jfm]

Re: No stopping this thread!

Well, that's interesting. I'll follow that up when I get a chance.

I just want to emphasise that poster on here Searanger Ancaster is serious good on hydraulic pumps and such like. A proper expert with good inventory and ability to source hardware, and a very nice guy too (He has supplied parts to me and did an outstanding job on the stabilisers on my brother's boat). He does it professionally, not as a hobby/sideline

 

[MapisM]

Re: Conclusion

TH, just another thought, based on the following reply from jfm:

if they're not, is an electric pump and some new control gear/software.

He is of course correct in principle: if your system is not already STAR-enabled, the typical STAR upgrade implies an electric pump, to start with.
But considering your boat specs, I would at least investigate the possibility to fit the second pump for STAR usage on the wing engine instead, as I already mentioned in my post #112, before I saw your pics.
Actually, I can neither assure you that it can be done, not that it's a more efficient alternative, because TBH I've never seen such setup.
Otoh, I can't think of any good reason against it, while I see several pros of such solution:

Firstly, the wing engine on boats like yours is vastly underused - I've seen single engine trawlers with several thousands of hours on the main and less than a hundred on the wing engine.

Secondly, the electric pump is actually a rather substantial and expensive 3-phase electric motor+pump, requiring a VFD for single phase to 3-phase conversion, and its current requirement is not trivial. This might stretch the genset limits, unless yours is already reasonably oversized.

Lastly, whenever you would cruise with the wing engine alone (either because, heaven forbid, the main lets you down, or - more likely - because you just fancy pootling around at 4 knots or trying some trolling fishing), you could still run the stabs without turning the genset on. In fact, the power absorption underway is just a fraction of what is required for zero speed opearion, and I believe that the wing engine could handle that.

Then again, as I previously said, in your boots I'd rather check the flopper stopper effectiveness first.
Costs aside, there's a lot to be said about having as LITTLE equipment as possible onboard.....

PS: all understood/agreed re. the layout, I perfectly see your point.

 

[jfm]

Re: Conclusion

Hmm, yes, I think a hydraulic PTO on the wing engine might indeed be a technically better, as well as cheaper, solution. For all the reasons stated. Good thinking imho, and definitely worth investigation

At zero speed, I don't think a flopper stopper will get near to the effectiveness of an active fin. The fin kicks quickly so that the boat never acquires any angular momentum, whereas the FS only provides a resistance once it is being dragged somewhat quickly through the water, by which time it is too late

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Conclusion

Costs aside, there's a lot to be said about having as LITTLE equipment as possible onboard.....

Erm yes there is a lot to be said for that! Before the days when boats had aircon, power steering, Sat TV, fridge freezer etc etc, then none of that would ever have broken down and ruined your holiday

 

[MapisM]

Re: Conclusion

Erm yes there is a lot to be said for that! Before the days when boats had aircon, power steering, Sat TV, fridge freezer etc etc, then none of that would ever have broken down and ruined your holiday

Well, in a sense what you are saying is actually true, if you think about it.
Fridge aside, that I would rate (for obvious reasons! ) just a hair under the liferaft in an hypothetical list of essential onboard equipment, I had a few boats with no a/c, TV, and several other amenities. But I wouldn't rate the time I spent on them as less enjoyable.
Then again, someone said that when you think that old times were better, quite often it's just because you were younger, so what do I know...?.

 

[MapisM]

Re: Conclusion

At zero speed, I don't think a flopper stopper will get near to the effectiveness of an active fin.

Agreed, no doubt about it.
Though on a heavy, ballasted, long rolling period hull, a less effective system might possibly be more acceptable than on many other vessels.
Just guessing now, but I'd be curious to hear more about that from TH, when he will have built up some experience.

 

[TwoHooter]

Re: Conclusion

Agreed, no doubt about it.
Though on a heavy, ballasted, long rolling period hull, a less effective system might possibly be more acceptable than on many other vessels.
Just guessing now, but I'd be curious to hear more about that from TH, when he will have built up some experience.

But I was trying to wind this thread down!

 

[BartW]

Re: Conclusion

But I was trying to wind this thread down!

why would you try that, as long interesting info and advice fe about the stabs , is posted ?

 

[jfm]

Re: Conclusion

heavy, ballasted, long rolling period hull...

N40 isn't that though. She is big strong and heavy for a 40 footer of course, but she is 23 tonnes, of which 1.5tonnes is ballast, and 4.5m beam, so she will have the same sort of roll period as a 55 foot P boat. That means she is perfectly well stabilisable with fins or gyros, but while Floppers will improve things I reckon your gin and tonic might still spill . No worries - TH can try it, and he can do the STAR upgrade if it makes sense

 

[MapisM]

Re: Conclusion

why would you try that

Absolutely +1!
We don't have many trawler fans around here, let alone Nordhavn owners - of course we're interested to hear more.
Btw TH, you weren't thinking to have satisfied our curiosity with just a few pics, were you?
Apropos, since you mentioned the forum restrictions for posting pics: what most folks do is upload the pics in some public websites like photobucket, and then include the link in your post. The syntax is as follows:

This way, the pic will appear directly in the post, with no need to click on them, and without bothering about the forum limits.
Just keep the pics width within 800 pixels or so, because very large images screw up the layout of the whole thread, making it more difficult to read.
Oh, and there's also a limit of 20 pics for each post, but that's no big deal...

 

[jfm]

Re: Conclusion

We don't have many trawler fans around here,

Oi! We have quite a few. You don't have to own one to be a fan of them :encouragement:

 

[longjohnsilver]

Re: Conclusion

There are a few trawler fans here . And a few with stabs.

 

[TwoHooter]

Re: Conclusion

why would you try that, as long interesting info and advice fe about the stabs , is posted ?

I supppose I could start a new thread on stabs, or more generally about the experience of getting to grips with a trawler yacht? I did think this thread had run its course. But you are right the information is good and I am reading it all. I have no idea at this stage whether the flopper stopper (we only have one) will be effective.

On balance, I would prefer a new thread. Nordhavn Newbie or somesuch.

 

[MapisM]

Re: Conclusion

Great idea, looking fwd to it! :encouragement:

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Conclusion

TwoHooter is this your boat reviewed by MBY?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhK-tLRCcaI

If it is, its in amazing condition for a 10yr old boat. Not surprised you bought it