Continuous Cruising

[bozlite]

Twohooter

First of all, I must say how much I'm enjoying this thread. My partner and I are planning (or dreaming about) something very similar - a leisurely tour around the coast of the UK (and perhaps further afield), and we too are drawn to Dutch steel cruisers. We've got one at the moment, in fact, but it's very definitely a river cruiser, not a coastal one. In our case, sadly, such dreams can't become reality for another 15 years or so ...

Anyway -

Therefore conventional hull speed = 1.34 X SQRT(36) = 8.04 say 8 knots. However I have been told to assume a hull speed of 6.5 knots. Haven't dug into that difference yet but my instinct is that the lower speed is likely to be correct.

The hull designer Andrew Wolstenholme, writing in one of the boating magazines a year or so ago, pointed out that, although the 1.34 X SQRT calculation was fine for arriving at a maximum hull speed, the most efficient cruising speed was more likely to be around the SQRT of waterline length. I think he said that fuel consumption could double between SQRT and SQRT X 1.34.

• Broker says that usual operation is at 6.5 knots on 1800 rpm. Engine is Perkins M150Ti and manufacturer's power/fuel consumption graph shows 13 litres/hour at this speed. Assume operation at my theoretical hull speed would increase relative fuel consumption, so stick with 13LPH
• Only one fuel tank, 705L.
• 705/13 = 54.2hrs x 6.5 = 352.3 nautical miles
• Allow 25% for unusable fuel and reserves, so 352.3/1.25 = 282 nautical miles

Looking at that another way, though, that's about 50 hours of cruising! At least 5 days' worth, I'd have thought, if you're just hopping round the coast.

Stevens (built by the Smelne boatyard, I think) are very well-regarded. Our own boat is of completely unknown provenance, but I did rather fondly think that it had the look of a Stevens about it. I sent a photograph to them asking if I might by any chance be right and got a very polite, if firmly dismissive reply: "Dear Sir, Thank you for your email and photograph. Your boat is most definitely NOT a Stevens. Enjoy your boating."

 

[TwoHooter]

@bozlite

Now you've gone and done it. I might have given up posting and done you all a favour but now I've been encouraged there'll be no stopping me.

What Andrew Wolstenholme says sounds right to me. Up to recently I relied on what I call "Bebe's Bible" (Voyaging under Power) but I am now reading a lot more and I reckon the 1.34 bit can be very misleading.

Shame you have to wait so long. I never even thought about this until we retired last year but I now appreciate how lucky we are to be able to even contemplate it. Saw these words recently, about long term (and long distance) cruising: 'You do unfortunately need 3 important things in order to "do it". They are: Time, money and health. And.. you need them all at the same time. Some of us never get those precious 3 things at the same time. Others have them but don't realize how fleeting they are..."

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

'You do unfortunately need 3 important things in order to "do it". They are: Time, money and health. And.. you need them all at the same time. Some of us never get those precious 3 things at the same time. Others have them but don't realize how fleeting they are..."

Very true. This is a conversation that my SWMBO has with me on a regular basis

 

[Erik C]

Sorry about the drift. Not suited for coastal but it should tick every box in the living and comfort departments.

http://www.e-y-n.com/boat/0/Prins_Homeship_1350/~2144.html?lang=2

 

[TwoHooter]

Sorry about the drift. Not suited for coastal but it should tick every box in the living and comfort departments.

Or this:-
View attachment 51670http://www.e-y-n.com/boat/0/Prins_Homeship_1350/~2144.html?lang=2
:encouragement:

 

[vas]

interesting thread and discussions the 1.34 bit is worried though. I'd rather like it in the equation as it will add a couple of knots on my 43ft craft

HOWEVER, I'm worried or confused that no one has commented on the incompatibility of stabs on inland waterways which seem to be an area you'd like to explore.
Cannot imagine getting into canals with two fins sticking down no matter what the hull construction is!
Am I missing something?

cheers

V.

 

[bozlite]

interesting thread and discussions the 1.34 bit is worried though. I'd rather like it in the equation as it will add a couple of knots on my 43ft craft

HOWEVER, I'm worried or confused that no one has commented on the incompatibility of stabs on inland waterways which seem to be an area you'd like to explore.
Cannot imagine getting into canals with two fins sticking down no matter what the hull construction is!
Am I missing something?

cheers

V.

Do fins necessarily add to the draft? When 'off' they certainly needn't add to the beam, need they? Or, I think there's a retractable 'rotatrim' (?) system, or gyros, of course.

Edit: 'rotatrim' should be RotorSwing

 

[TwoHooter]

I'm worried or confused that no one has commented on the incompatibility of stabs on inland waterways which seem to be an area you'd like to explore. Cannot imagine getting into canals with two fins sticking down no matter what the hull construction is!
Am I missing something?

You're not missing anything. It's just one compromise on top of another. If we go for a low air draft boat with the idea of including the inland waterways the stabiliser probably has to be a gyro under the aft cabin bed, Seakeeper or somesuch.

Having said that I have been chatting to the owner of a Nordhavn 47 who has driven through the Crinan Canal so it can be done with fin stabs.

Going back to the original post, the incentive to look at the Dutch steel boats was mainly because I thought they might be a cheaper option than trawlers. We are no longer sure that is right.

Thinking of going to the Netherlands or France next; plenty to look at there.

Meanwhile, here's a video of a Dutch steel boat (Stevens) ploughing through chop: http://www.haraldpaul.com/trailergypsy.html

 

[MapisM]

Do fins necessarily add to the draft?

Nope, they don't. Not on displacement hulls anyway, 'cause the keel sits much lower in the water than anything else (fins/props/rudders) - you can kinda see that also in my avatar, btw.
Also, when fins are centered they definitely don't add to the max beam, though you'd better keep them in mind while mooring alongside, when the bottom is very shallow near the dock wall.
Bottom line, I wouldn't agree with Vas that fin stabs are incompatible with inland waterways.
They are obviously useless for river cruising alone, if that's what he meant, but they aren't much of a restriction.

 

[vas]

Nope, they don't. Not on displacement hulls anyway, 'cause the keel sits much lower in the water than anything else (fins/props/rudders) - you can kinda see that also in my avatar, btw.
Also, when fins are centered they definitely don't add to the max beam, though you'd better keep them in mind while mooring alongside, when the bottom is very shallow near the dock wall.
Bottom line, I wouldn't agree with Vas that fin stabs are incompatible with inland waterways.
They are obviously useless for river cruising alone, if that's what he meant, but they aren't much of a restriction.

MM,
of course your are right,
however we are not in an ideal world, so I insist that I'd not be particularly happy moving about in an canal where ppl have thrown old refrigarators, bikes, shopping trolleys only for one of them to be picked up by a fin!
Granted speeds are going to be silly slow for a serious damage but even so i'd rather not have things protruding out in such conditions.

cheers

V.

 

[henryf]

Would you not use gyroscopic stabilisation on a small boat? A wise owl once told me gyroscopic up to 50 feet. Fins over 70 feet and argue amongst yourselves between the two.

I think the Privateer steel boat at Southampton boat show a couple of years ago had gyroscopic stabilisation.


Henry

 

[TwoHooter]

Update

There are a few people following this thread so I thought an update was due. We were about to set off to look at boats in the Netherlands, and possibly one in France, when we realised that if we aren't careful we will spend the whole summer looking at boats instead of enjoying the perfectly serviceable one we already have. So we cast off from our home base at Chichester and have worked our way round to the Orwell in two sessions interrupted by a quick trip home in the period of bad weather at the end of May. All the reasons we have for getting a motorboat with more space are still valid and we definitely want one but it would have been a pity to waste the good weather. It will be interesting to see which of the boats on our shortlist have sold while we have been cruising

We have been looking at boats while en route and on the hard at Dover we saw a Dutch steel "Noaber" type intended for blue waters, built by Consonant, better known for their "Kuster" line of inland cruisers. They went bust a while back but the brand is apparently being resurrected. The quality looked superb. Sadly I cannot post a picture - something seems to be wrong with the software this evening.

One decision is definitely made - our next boat has to have the galley "up" like our present one; we don't want the galley down below with no views.

 

[beebok]

Re: Update

Well we like you had a sail boat with aft cabin plenty of room for long cruises.
We went to motor in 2013 reason for the change we lost interest it passage plans
at 7/8knots we wanted more speed but wanted a good sea boat that can handle
the ruff stuff which is guaranteed.
Last year we spent 6 months aboard,on a boat that gave us comfort and speed and very safe boat in bad weather with a cruising speed at
16knots not cheap to run but in the grand scheme fuel is a relative low cost.
We bought an Aquastar which is based on the Nelson hull.

 

[TwoHooter]

Re: Update

We bought an Aquastar which is based on the Nelson hull.

Which Aquastar did you buy and what is the engine room access like? I do most of our engine maintenance and I want easy access.

 

[beebok]

Re: Update

we went for the 48 but the from the 38 upwards very similar interior layout.
Access is by lifting all floor boards for servicing.The floor can be lifted in-between both engines
for all necessary checks which i do when underway for peace of mind.
if your want to chat give us a call 07802 214185

 

[TwoHooter]

Conclusion

There were a few people following this thread so I thought I ought to say how it worked out in the end.

We looked at Dutch boats (Stevens mainly), and vessels with Nelson hulls, and lots of "trawlers" including Grand Banks, C-Kip and Trader. We even looked at converted fishing vessels. We would have looked at Flemings but there wasn't a single one within our budget. We thought seriously about building a custom steel motor yacht or buying something like A DeFever in the USA and bringing it over. We looked at close to a thousand boats on the internet and a fair few in real life. At one stage we got boat "daze" (well-known medical condition where all boats look the same, you can't tell one from t'other, and every boat is just another b****y boat ).

But in the end we bought a ten year old Nordhavn N40. We have been anti-fouling her today at Hamble Point and she will go back in the water on Thursday. Our first cruise will be westward to the Scilly Isles, either later this year or as soon as the weather allows in 2016.

All boats are compromises. Our choice didn't tick every box on our checklist, and she wouldn't be everyone's choice. But she ticked more boxes than any other boat and we like her a lot. Since we signed the papers we haven't regretted our choice for an instant and we can't wait to make use of that 2,500 mile range she will give us.

And finally a big "thankyou" to everyone who posted comments and ideas. We read every post and thought about all your comments a lot.

 

[[2068]]

Re: Conclusion

Some pictures would be appropriate at this time

 

[longjohnsilver]

Re: Conclusion

Scilly in September could be a great place to be. Our favorite cruising ground, don't miss the cove between St Agnes and Gugh, nor Old and New Grimsby Sounds, and be sure to say hi to Henry Birch, the soon to be retired Tresco HM, and we also love St Helens Pool.

If you've not been there before, it's a fabulously beautiful place, I'm sure you'll love it. If calling into Dartmouth be sure to let us know so we can arrange a new boat celebratory drink!

 

[TwoHooter]

Re: Conclusion

Some pictures would be appropriate at this time

(If you tell her I posted this she'll divorce me, she'll probably get the boat, and I'll have to hunt you down wherever you are and sink you)

 

[TwoHooter]

Re: Conclusion

Scilly in September could be a great place to be. Our favorite cruising ground, don't miss the cove between St Agnes and Gugh, nor Old and New Grimsby Sounds, and be sure to say hi to Henry Birch, the soon to be retired Tresco HM, and we also love St Helens Pool. If you've not been there before, it's a fabulously beautiful place, I'm sure you'll love it. If calling into Dartmouth be sure to let us know so we can arrange a new boat celebratory drink!

We've been to the Scillies as tourists, can't wait to get back there in our own boat. Dartmouth definitely on the passage plan, mine's a Bollinger please