damo
Well-Known Member
Worms Head it is, and a yacht out of Swansea whose name I've forgotten having a lunch stop.
Continual quiz on the Bristol Channel - 14??
- Thread starter Icelander18
- Start date
tonybarebones
Well-Known Member
Under the 24 hour rule.. i.e. after no questions have been asked for a period of 24 hours, anyone can ask a question... (I just made that up ok) seems reasonable to me. I herby reserve the right to pose a question… it is reputed that a German U Boat came up the Bristol channel in WW II and took on supplies in a secluded bay… This is a two part question… 1) what did it pick up? 2) where was the bay? A clue… the bay was located East of Hartland Point. Now try Googling that mother... Damo /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
graham
Well-Known Member
Brains Dark in Jacksons Bay? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
chrishelen
N/A
Combe Martin,Water.
damo
Well-Known Member
He he!
It seems that U-boats regularly put crews ashore along the coast just east of Combe Martin, to get freshwater. Sherrycombe, below Holdstone Down, is reputed to be one of the places, where it would have been very difficult to see a boat below from the clifftops. There are also rumours that some of the crews trecked up to the top to play football.
And if that wasn't the answer you were looking for, it bl**dy well should have been, cos it's a great story! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
(And ChrisHelen know the story as well it seems /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif)
http://www.tour-devon.com/history/U-Boat.html
It seems that U-boats regularly put crews ashore along the coast just east of Combe Martin, to get freshwater. Sherrycombe, below Holdstone Down, is reputed to be one of the places, where it would have been very difficult to see a boat below from the clifftops. There are also rumours that some of the crews trecked up to the top to play football.
And if that wasn't the answer you were looking for, it bl**dy well should have been, cos it's a great story! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
(And ChrisHelen know the story as well it seems /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif)
http://www.tour-devon.com/history/U-Boat.html
damo
Well-Known Member
FFS have I really done 2000 posts?? And every one a waste of bandwidth /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
tonybarebones
Well-Known Member
Ah Damo, you’ve not disappointed us again, is there no limit to Googleable topics I ask myself, well done me ol sock, you sure played a blinder again, the bay I had in mind was in fact Woody Bay, but your answer is probably even better, whilst I think about it there was a pic in one of the Sunday papers showing three subs that I believe had been scuttled off Padstow, perhaps you could find us some info on that, but in the meantime it’s over to you ol mate…/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
damo
Well-Known Member
Funny you should mention those 3 subs, cos I came across that as well:
War Mystery Solved
Taken from the Western Morning News, 22 December 2006.
Divers have uncovered the wrecks of three Second World War German U-boats off the Cornish coast, which have shed light on a British operation that has remained secret for more than 60 years.
Historians were amazed at the discovery of the catastrophically damaged U-boats which are lying in close proximity to each other seven miles off Newquay, because no U-boats had ever been recorded being lost there previously.
After extensive research it was revealed they had been the victims of a secret minefield laid especially to trap such vessels after the British intercepted a radio message from a U-boat commander. His boat had sunk a British destroyer after discovering a gap in the minefield between Cornwall and Ireland to allow supply ships in to Cardiff and Bristol.
He radioed the news back to Germany, but the message was deciphered by British intelligence at Bletchley Park. As a result the British laid deep mines designed to allow surface ships through but trap U-boats.
Historians were unaware of the secret U-boat death trap until the Government de-classified wartime documents recently. And now the discovery of the three wrecked U-boats off Cornwall has shown just how successful it was.
Naval historian Eric Grove said the fate of the U-325, U-400, and U-1021, which disappeared in late 1944 and early 1945 was revealing.
"This shows the deep trap minefield was far more successful in killing U-boats than first thought," he said. "It was only recently the Government revealed the existence of this deep water minefield and the presence of these wrecked U-boats shows how effective it was. The U-boat crews were under orders to patrol coastal waters hunting Allied shipping at the end of the war because the Atlantic campaign was over. Admiralty records show two of the three U-boats in question were thought to have been sunk by depth charge in the Bristol Channel. This new research shows that was wrong and they actually struck mines off Cornwall."
Diver Innes McCartney was the main submarine investigator who, with German expert Axel Niestle, identified these submarines and the reasons why they sank. He said the crew of the U-boats would have had no chance of survival when their submarine hit the mine.
"Minefields were fatal to a submarine," he said. "A surface ship could survive a mine but U-boats had no chance of recovery if a mine exploded. The crew were doomed. When we dived on these U-boats we saw the whole bow had been blown off which is where the crew would have been quartered. The inner pressure hulls of the U-boats were still relatively intact, though the outer hulls were decaying. We could still see the sea boots of crew members sticking out, which was rather eerie."
Mr McCartney, an experienced submarine wreck diver, said the significance of the find really came home when he traced the 82-year-old widow of one of the U-boat commanders in Germany.
"She went through the whole gamut of emotions," he said. "They had been childhood sweethearts, married and had children - and then he just disappeared. It was very difficult for her because his fate was a mystery. So to finally discover his whereabouts was very emotional."
Starshell, Volume VII, Number 37, Winter 2006/2007 (National Publication of The Naval Officers Association of Canada) reports:
"U325 – Originally credited to HMS Havelock, Hesperus and RAF Sqn. 201 on April 30, 1945, but they sank U242, then listed (in 1984) as 'unknown'. Now discovered, just west of the swept channel northwest of Padstow, definitely mined, at the end of March or in early April 1945.
"U400 – Originally credited to the depth charges of HMS Nyasaland, a Colony-class frigate, on December 17, 1944, off the south coast of Ireland. Now discovered, definitely mined, in the swept channel area off Padstow, sometime in December 1944. Nyasaland’s target off south Ireland is now considered to have been U772, originally credited to Sunderland aircraft attack, but she now seems to have survived that attack and is now changed to that ship’s credit off Ireland.
"U102 – Originally credited to depth charges of the Captain-class frigates HM Ships Rupert and Conn on March 30, 1945, off western Scotland. Now definitely mined in the swept channel off Padstow, probably on March 14, 1945, in that a merchantman heard a loud explosion in the area that day. Rupert and Conn’s target is now considered to have been U965, last as described off Scotland’s Western Isles and sunk by Conn, quite correctly. U1021 was not the target
****************************************
There was a lot more U-boat activity in the BC than I ever realised
War Mystery Solved
Taken from the Western Morning News, 22 December 2006.
Divers have uncovered the wrecks of three Second World War German U-boats off the Cornish coast, which have shed light on a British operation that has remained secret for more than 60 years.
Historians were amazed at the discovery of the catastrophically damaged U-boats which are lying in close proximity to each other seven miles off Newquay, because no U-boats had ever been recorded being lost there previously.
After extensive research it was revealed they had been the victims of a secret minefield laid especially to trap such vessels after the British intercepted a radio message from a U-boat commander. His boat had sunk a British destroyer after discovering a gap in the minefield between Cornwall and Ireland to allow supply ships in to Cardiff and Bristol.
He radioed the news back to Germany, but the message was deciphered by British intelligence at Bletchley Park. As a result the British laid deep mines designed to allow surface ships through but trap U-boats.
Historians were unaware of the secret U-boat death trap until the Government de-classified wartime documents recently. And now the discovery of the three wrecked U-boats off Cornwall has shown just how successful it was.
Naval historian Eric Grove said the fate of the U-325, U-400, and U-1021, which disappeared in late 1944 and early 1945 was revealing.
"This shows the deep trap minefield was far more successful in killing U-boats than first thought," he said. "It was only recently the Government revealed the existence of this deep water minefield and the presence of these wrecked U-boats shows how effective it was. The U-boat crews were under orders to patrol coastal waters hunting Allied shipping at the end of the war because the Atlantic campaign was over. Admiralty records show two of the three U-boats in question were thought to have been sunk by depth charge in the Bristol Channel. This new research shows that was wrong and they actually struck mines off Cornwall."
Diver Innes McCartney was the main submarine investigator who, with German expert Axel Niestle, identified these submarines and the reasons why they sank. He said the crew of the U-boats would have had no chance of survival when their submarine hit the mine.
"Minefields were fatal to a submarine," he said. "A surface ship could survive a mine but U-boats had no chance of recovery if a mine exploded. The crew were doomed. When we dived on these U-boats we saw the whole bow had been blown off which is where the crew would have been quartered. The inner pressure hulls of the U-boats were still relatively intact, though the outer hulls were decaying. We could still see the sea boots of crew members sticking out, which was rather eerie."
Mr McCartney, an experienced submarine wreck diver, said the significance of the find really came home when he traced the 82-year-old widow of one of the U-boat commanders in Germany.
"She went through the whole gamut of emotions," he said. "They had been childhood sweethearts, married and had children - and then he just disappeared. It was very difficult for her because his fate was a mystery. So to finally discover his whereabouts was very emotional."
Starshell, Volume VII, Number 37, Winter 2006/2007 (National Publication of The Naval Officers Association of Canada) reports:
"U325 – Originally credited to HMS Havelock, Hesperus and RAF Sqn. 201 on April 30, 1945, but they sank U242, then listed (in 1984) as 'unknown'. Now discovered, just west of the swept channel northwest of Padstow, definitely mined, at the end of March or in early April 1945.
"U400 – Originally credited to the depth charges of HMS Nyasaland, a Colony-class frigate, on December 17, 1944, off the south coast of Ireland. Now discovered, definitely mined, in the swept channel area off Padstow, sometime in December 1944. Nyasaland’s target off south Ireland is now considered to have been U772, originally credited to Sunderland aircraft attack, but she now seems to have survived that attack and is now changed to that ship’s credit off Ireland.
"U102 – Originally credited to depth charges of the Captain-class frigates HM Ships Rupert and Conn on March 30, 1945, off western Scotland. Now definitely mined in the swept channel off Padstow, probably on March 14, 1945, in that a merchantman heard a loud explosion in the area that day. Rupert and Conn’s target is now considered to have been U965, last as described off Scotland’s Western Isles and sunk by Conn, quite correctly. U1021 was not the target
****************************************
There was a lot more U-boat activity in the BC than I ever realised
damo
Well-Known Member
Ok, next whereisit - Why might you have to tie up temporarily alongside this?
Who
Well-Known Member
Its on the Cumberland Basin Quay right next to the Lockside restaurant in Bristol harbour.
Its the end of a large anchor.
And you will need to wait while they swing the Junction Lock bridge, Plimsoll bridge or open the stop gates if closed.
Or of course, you will be waiting in the restaurant having breakfast /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
A very basic question, where did the anchor come from. (And don't ask me as I don't know)
Its the end of a large anchor.
And you will need to wait while they swing the Junction Lock bridge, Plimsoll bridge or open the stop gates if closed.
Or of course, you will be waiting in the restaurant having breakfast /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
A very basic question, where did the anchor come from. (And don't ask me as I don't know)
tonybarebones
Well-Known Member
Now this is rather ironic, cos this type of anchor (there may be many other uses) was used to anchor submarine nets, I know this cos they have loads of them down in Pembroke Naval Dockyard and they are stored there just in case Milford Haven needs to be protected with anti submarine nets... so there. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
graham
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
they are stored there just in case Milford Haven needs to be protected with anti submarine nets... so there.
[/ QUOTE ]
They wouldnt need them the bloo£$ fisherman do a good enough job with pot lines and gash bits of trawl net /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
they are stored there just in case Milford Haven needs to be protected with anti submarine nets... so there.
[/ QUOTE ]
They wouldnt need them the bloo£$ fisherman do a good enough job with pot lines and gash bits of trawl net /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
damo
Well-Known Member
Spot on.I did try to find out the history of them but no luck - maybe someone could ask the Dockmaster next time they are going through the Junction Lock?
Csail
N/A
Why are anchors out of proportion.... think a 30' yacht anchor is about 2' long but ships are only about 8' ??
graham
Well-Known Member
I guess its more to do with the weight than the size .It may be only 4 times longer but I wouldnt like to guess the weight ratio. Also ships use long lengths of heavy chain.
tonybarebones
Well-Known Member
How long should a tow rope be when towing another vessel?
Csail
N/A
graham
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
How long should a tow rope be when towing another vessel?
[/ QUOTE ]
Dont know the book answer .depends on where you are ,longer tow out at sea then shorten up for manouvering.Some towed barges trail a spare tow line astern at sea so if the main line parts the tug can steam around and pick up the secondary one. Something to think of if passing across the stern of something being towed. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
How long should a tow rope be when towing another vessel?
[/ QUOTE ]
Dont know the book answer .depends on where you are ,longer tow out at sea then shorten up for manouvering.Some towed barges trail a spare tow line astern at sea so if the main line parts the tug can steam around and pick up the secondary one. Something to think of if passing across the stern of something being towed. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
chrishelen
N/A
Hi Damo,the only reason i knew the uboat thingy was the skipper of a tourist boat out of Ilfracome told me in the pub about 3 years ago,he came out with all sorts of interesting storys from the war,apparently some uboats trading with some of the more remote villages on the Welsh and English coasts especialy in the 14-18 war.dont know how true these stories are,someone will no doubt enlighten me.
damo
Well-Known Member
On that link I posted there seems to have been all sorts of stories, most of which are probably mythical. One of them was about a u-boat crew walking into Combe Martin looking for somewhere to get their laundry done!
One site I found has all the cruises of all the u-boats, including sinkings, crews, their fate etc, and there was an awful lot of activity in the BC. For example, you come across snippets like U-29 laying 12 mines 8 miles NE of Morte Point. I wonder how many are still lying about the place?
One site I found has all the cruises of all the u-boats, including sinkings, crews, their fate etc, and there was an awful lot of activity in the BC. For example, you come across snippets like U-29 laying 12 mines 8 miles NE of Morte Point. I wonder how many are still lying about the place?
