Container Ship Sinks Yacht

Mirelle

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The International Transport Federation needs YOU!

Ken, you have missed your true vocation. If every container ship is going to post a bridge wing lookout and a forecastle head lookout whenever she is in confined waters (remember the bridge watch cannot see over the side or ahead in good visibility, not just in fog) the Safe Manning Certificate for these ships is going to have to be revised, to allow for another 6 AB's, two for each watch.

Come to think of it, should that not be two bridge wing lookouts? Make that another 9, not 6. Which, means we will need another steward, too - call it ten.

We will of course have the ship on had steering, so we need three more quartermasters, as well. Make that thirteen.

If these ships are to feel their way down the North Sea and the Channel at bare steerage way (which incidentally is also quite fast - the windage on the deck stack has to be thought about) then their schedules are going to look very different and we will need a tenth ship in each string to retain a weekly fixed day service between Europe and Asia, rather than the 9 at say US$ 65M each that we now have.

So that's ten ships, per company, employing an extra 130 men, on ITF rates of US$1,100 per month, plus overlaps and travel, with a capital investment of an extra US$65M per string, multiplied by the number of fixed day weekly services on the route, say another 12, so we have employed 1,460 mariners, plus overlaps say another 200, and spent another US$750M in the shipyards, in the Far East container trade alone, so that you can cross the Channel in greater security than you do now.

You may wish to extend this principle to the Atlantic trades, and the African trades, of course....and they there are all those tankers and bulk carriers....

I wholeheartedly agree with you and so will everyone in the shipping industry. Now tell the good Ms Loyola de Palacio at the EU Commission so that she enforces it and we will be delighted to oblige. Otherwise this is a recipe for commericial suicide.

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babylocked

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Re: Turning to port

Therefore - as Yacht going north, Ship going West – at right angles cause it’s a shipping lane.

Scenario 1 - Both see (on radar) each other before yacht is in-front of Ship – both turn to starboard – no collision.

Scenario 2 – Yacht see ship (on radar) before yacht is in-front of Ship – yacht turns to starboard/slows down – no collision.

Scenario 3 - Both see (on radar) each other when yacht is in-front of Ship – yacht stands on/or turns away from ship (port), ship turns to Starboard – bearing in mind turning circle, width of ship and speed potential of yacht there’s going to be a collision unless they see each other very early.

Scenario 4 - Yacht see ship (on radar) when yacht is in-front of Ship – yacht stands on/or turns away from ship (port), ship does nothing – bearing in mind width of ship and speed potential of yacht there’s going to be a collision unless the see the ship very early.

So it’s very possible that even if both sides follow that bit of the ColReg’s to the letter if there was a real potential for a collision (3&4) there is going to be one.

IMHO the only solution is for a very good watch to be kept on ships that then take avoiding action – means that yachts crossing the Channel need to be good radar targets – what about the use of active radar beacons.




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bedouin

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Re: The International Transport Federation needs YOU!

So what's the answer - do you think it is okay for container ships to run down yachts in the Channel and not stop? Or do you believe that "might is right" and it is purely the yacht's responsibility to get out of the way?

We have no evidence that the yacht was not gravely at fault - but clearly the container ship was not complying with Colregs. It is really the nautical equivalent of a lorry running a red light and crashing into a cyclist.

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babylocked

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Re: The International Transport Federation needs YOU!

We live in the days of modern technology.

Surely the ship owners can stretch to a High Definition video system to allow the OOW on the bridge to see everything they need to in full Technicolor without employing an extra 9 people capable of falling asleep at their posts.


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Mirelle

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Multi-tasking?

The OOW must give helm and telegraph orders, navigate, write up the log and maintain a visual and radar lookout. With which pair of non- night adjusted eyes is he or she to monitor this bank of TV screens?



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jimi

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Re: Turning to port

I find this situation scarey! I'm on a wee boat doing 6 knots and spot on radar a faster craft on my starboard quarter on a collision course doing 24 knots, he has the option to turn to port or starboard as he's the overtaking craft... presuming he's spotted me. If I know he's spotted me, my only safe course of action is to maintain course and speed. If I am unsure if he's spotted me, If I do nothing I may be crunched very shortly,If I turn to port and he also does (he's overtaking) then I'm stuffed. I'm not allowed to turn to starboard, If I stop and he's made a slight change to port then I'm also stuffed. I'm not allowed to turn to starboard. THe only real option I've got then is If I see an overtaking vessel on starboard quarter and I'm unsure if Im visible to him, is to do 180 IN PLENTY OF TIME and get the hell out of it. What do you reckon?

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Metabarca

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Re: The International Transport Federation needs Y

Turning your argument around, it stands to reason that if lorries were allowed to be heavier and travel faster with longer intervals between breaks for the drivers, the economy would make a whopping saving. And all those traffic lights need removing, too; they are the cause of a whole series of 'strings of lorries' being needed up and down the M1. Just imagine: one artic could supply all of Sainsbury's supermarkets every day if it weren't for these short-sighted hindrances!

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zefender

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Re: Multi-tasking?

I don't really care how complicated the job of the OOW is or how much it costs to have a proper lookout, particularly in bad weather. Commercial traffic can't just go around smashing into whatever it wants (regardless of colregs) or wringing its hands at the cost of proper manning in order to maintain safe seas for all.

I accept we don't onow the facts on this one but to be travelling at anything more than snails pace in thick fog is asking for trouble and a breach at least in spirit, of the regs.

It's plainly ridiculous to have such large vessels charging about at waterski speed yet built like mountains, with a couple of likely lads tucked up watching telly on the bridge.

Maybe speed humps are the answer!

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jimi

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Re: The International Transport Federation needs Y

Absolutely .. particularly if the roads were made of metal rails to guide the vehicles!

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Cornishman

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Re: Container Ship Sinks Yacht-Harnesses in fog?.

Your opening sentence is a bit wild, ain't it? That's what this thread is all about - a yacht struck by another vessel and sinking!

And it's not the first time, either. Way back in the 1970s the Island Cruising Club lost a yacht, and two crew, when struck by another vessel - a French fishing boat.

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babylocked

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Re: Multi-tasking?

The one's he's already supposed to be maintaining a visual lookout with. With the use of night vision and thermal imaging technologies he’ll be able to see as well at night as he can in the day.
If he can’t keep an eye on them and technology can’t make it possible (Heads up display e.t.c) then it’s only 3 extra bodies, small price to pay for safety IMHO.


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Peppermint

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Re: It\'s worse than you think.

You often see a ship adjust it's course in the middle of nowhere for no reason you can think of. He may be aligning himself with a separation lane thirty miles away or responding to other large ship traffic that with our limited horizon we can't even see.

Lets face it if he hits a yacht it's bad luck but if he hit's another ship well thats something else.

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sailbadthesinner

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Re: Container Ship Sinks Yacht-Harnesses in fog?.

not at all
how many vessells put to the water in the solent alone in a season.
How many of those are struck by a vessel and sunk
assume it is three a season
you have a three in how many thousand chance
now include the whole south coast

how would you describe that number?


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ParaHandy

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Re: Multi-tasking?

Somewhat disingenuous, if I may say so. Whether or not TV screens are appropriate, some lateral thinking should be applied. If I can cope doing rather more peoples jobs than I was 10 years ago, I fail to see why the shipping industry can not do likewise - as I am sure they are, they just need to do so before more such accidents occur and Ms Legover imposes harsh restrictions ..

One can surmise that this accident had no fatalities by the tiniest of margins.

If these ships are going to continue steaming at full speed (and I would give very short odds on that being the case here) in these conditions ........... utter madness


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Peppermint

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Re: So we\'ve built a monster.

It's too loaded down with containers to keep a proper look out.

It's got to much windage to steer at much less than 15 knots.

To make a profit it has to be undermanned and go flat out at all times.

It's controled by undertrained, underpaid and overworked asian lads.

It's technologies are so good that it can dispense with out dated ideas like making sound signals, securing it's cargo or stopping for it's victims.

It scatters it's containers all over the 7 seas.

Sure is progress.




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ParaHandy

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Re: Known facts of the case

Are you absolutely sure that your radar will pick up a solid contact at 24 nm range?

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jimi

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Hard up .. so to speak?

Is this really legover material?
large_loy_oneil.jpg


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ParaHandy

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1 and counting ...

Would it not be more relevant to take the percentage crossing the channel? That would improve your probability (of getting sawed in half) no end ....

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ParaHandy

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Re: Hard up .. so to speak?

Ah well, that's that then ....

Just above her head, it looks as though she's about to get nutted by the vase



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jimi

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Re: Hard up .. so to speak?

Dinnae be daft man, thats the ships bell, it goes ding when another GRP craft get crunched ... hence the origin of the term "ding".

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