Consulting? Who should be exempt from booze law?

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: A couple of points

Are you on a pontoon by any chance?

If I wish to go ashore for a drink it must be via dinghy. Under these new rules I would be limited to 1.5 pints before I am deemed unfit to row back to my boat to sleep.

Or, I have lets say a bottle and a half of wine up to 2300, I wake up at 0730 to slip mooring, blue lights, I will be over the limit, yet sober enough to move and sail my boat without danger.

I am not a big drinker, in fact I don't drink very much at all, can't actually remember the last time I was drunk. But I am sick of this roll over attitude in this country to regulation and control. I am actually starting to pity those who think it is ok to live under regulation and become a police state. Nanny says.

And please, the argument about children, on every new regulation, there is always some bright'o who comes out with 'but what about the safety, what if you killed a child', I drink, smoke, drive and speed when appropriate, but I have nver tried to kill a child, and am fed up of being accused so.....

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[BrendanS]

Re: THE DANGER OF THIS government..

Duncan, not sure that anyone is endangering life at speed within 250m of shore on huge stretches of coastline. eg local to you, Old Harry to St Albans? No one there to endanger

<hr width=100% size=1>Utinam logica falsa tuam philisophiam totam suffodiant

 

[Peppermint]

Re: I don\'t roll over

But I know when you can't win.

In fact as a yachtsman you can't win many of them. There will be increased interference as time goes on and nobody will lift a finger.

There are no votes in yachting. There is no vocal, oppressed minority with a good case. The media doesn't like us, most politicians and journalists don't know we exist unless somebodies died or being rescued and the whole industries not as big as Tesco's.

For HMG this is a logical step from other areas of life. I don't think it's necessary I don't think it's helpful but it is inevitable. HMG like things that control things, cost next to nothing and might even earn a few bob.

If you think this is bad. Wait until you have to be vetted to take your grandchildrens friends out for a sail.



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[duncan]

Re: THE DANGER OF THIS government..

you will find a significant number of people in or around the water's edge in that area - 250m is not very far!
examples - swimmers in Lulworth / Durdle, Worbarrow, Kimmeridge and around dancing ledge. Cavers/climbers and divers from Durlston/Anvil and else where.
However we all see and here about incidents that are, I believe, avoidable by the introduction of this 'simple to understand, comunicate and enforce' law.

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[BrendanS]

Re: THE DANGER OF THIS government..

>>Lulworth / Durdle, Worbarrow<<

but they are not between Old Harry and St Albans?

Similar stretch is north shore of Solent from Hurst to Calshot - no swimmers, no divers. Imposing speed limits within that distance of the shore in the UK doesn't make sense.

OK, in parts of south of france, lots of swimmers in water off sandy beaches, but huge parts of UK coastline are almost uninhabited, and certainly no swimmers or divers. Just do what they have done in the Eastern Solent, and impose local speed bans near shore.

No need to make it country wide where it's not needed. It'd be a bit like imposing a 30mph restriction on motorways, just because motorways are roads.

<hr width=100% size=1>Utinam logica falsa tuam philisophiam totam suffodiant

 

[flaming]

Re: THE DANGER OF THIS government..

I don't think anyone here would have a problem with the drunk skipper of a vessel (of any description, from rubber flubber to superyacht) which has caused an accident being prosecuted. But I really don't like the definition of the "navigator" being the person actually on the helm. The problem with this is that sailing is a social activity as much as it is a sport. Who here hasn't taken non sailing friends out for a day? And who let them try their hand at helming? And then wouldn't it be perfectly natural to leave someone who seemed not entirely incompetent on the helm for a brief period of time whilst you checked the chart/made a cup of tea/answered a call of nature or anything else that demands your presence below decks.
Now while you are below decks your seemingly competent helm makes a classic beginners error and rams a passing boat. Even without alcohol being a factor you could see that some people may wish to establish blame. So who is to blame? The skipper who is below decks or the helm on his first ever sailing trip? If the alcohol law is used as a template then surely the "navigator" is. Does this mean we have to tell people that they may be liable for any crashes as we hand them the helm for the first time in their lives?
I think this needs some clarification, in my opinion the alcohol ruling should be the same. It is the person who is actually the ultimate authority on the boat who needs to shoulder the blame, and be liable for breath testing where applicable. No other scheme is workable in my eyes.


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[Birdseye]

Re: THE DANGER OF THIS government..

The personalised bile aimed at HMCG is, in my view, quite unacceptable - and no, I dont work for the Govt in any way. HMCG clearly put a reasoned argument, and pointed out thet the law had already been passed, So it has, and nows your chance to influence how it will be implemented by reasoned argument.. Histrionics wont work.

When this subject was first raised with the RYA some fair time ago, it was allegedly revealed by a DoT employee that the original proposal (resulting from the Marchioness disaster) had been to exclude leisure sailors, but when it got to a certain ex steward he allegedly said " no f**g way". Such is power.

Incidentally, the proposals allow for harbour masters to test you. As it is, many harbour bye laws prohibit drunken boating, but the problem is that the test of drunkenness is back in the old "walk the line"era.

Personally, I have had a small accident early in my sailing career as the result of a misjudgement following 2 pints. No one injured, nothing damaged but my pride, but it did enough to show me the consequence of drinking on an unstable platform like a boat even with such a small quantity involved. My boat is now dry - and that includes visitors. So I would support a 100% ban on booze for all crew on a boat except when firmly tied to a pontoon or harbour wall. Including those about to do a drunken row back from the pub, who might be risking no one but themselves. There is nothing wrong in protecting fools from the consequences of their own actions

I really dont see anything wrong with the proposal. But then I dont see why so many middle aged people still drink and driveeither.

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: THE DANGER OF THIS government..

Including those about to do a drunken row back from the pub, who might be risking no one but themselves. There is nothing wrong in protecting fools from the consequences of their own actions<<<<


Thank you Nanny, I need protecting from myself.


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[longjohnsilver]

Re: THE DANGER OF THIS government..

Yes you got there before me, what a load of sanctimonious twaddle. My boat is most definitely not dry and I fully intend to keep it that way. And as I am on a mooring Capn Birdseye would have me become a tea totaller. I think not!!!

There's a load of bolx in this thread, I go boating to get away from the pathetic bureaucrats and petty officialdom. I regularly drink on board and consider myself to be a safe and considerate boater. No accidents or even near misses in 20 years, but have seen plenty of idiots on the water most of whom were probably stone cold sober.

If I kill myself on the way back to my boat in my dinghy then that's my problem, no one elses. Can you really imagine in every port, every little inlet and creek an waterborne police patrol just waiting at all hours of the night and day to stop someone in their dinghy?

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[halcyon]

Re: THE DANGER OF THIS government..

One question, were do you draw the line?.
Who many people have been injured while drunk in there rubber duck.
How many have been injured getting on or off a boat?
How many have been injured walking down the pontoon to there boat.
How many have been injured falling off harbour quays.
How many have been injured parking there cars at the quay.

The only way to protect the man in the rubber duck is to ban all drinking within 50 yards of water, that way we would cover him on the way to his rubber duck,and cover coastal fishermen, coastal climbers, coastal path walkers, swimmers, and sun bathers as well.

Heard a bit on radio the other day, 200,000 injuries and 20 ( may be a 0 to many or short ) killed doing DIY jobs in the house.

Brian


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[boatless]

Re: A couple of points

Well, so apparently I'm a bright'o. Not sure what it means though.

Reason I mentioned it is that I was reflecting on one incident when a vv drunk skipper of a fishing boat reversed into me at about 3kts while anchored off Cowes, watching Cowes/Torquay powerboats. I was old enough and wise enough not to try and get between a heavy steel boat and mine. I've a feeling that if it happened now, and I wasn't watching, a keen 11 or 7 year old just might.

My post was really trying to ascertain whether there is existing law or not? Still not sure.

If it makes any difference, I do drink and helm, but not any more than I would to drive.

After all, what's the point of a fridge full of Amstels at elevenses in the Ionian?

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.

 

[poter]

The real figures????

Can a representative from HMG, or anyone, at least give us some real honest figures as to the number of injuries/fatalities due to Drinking & boating?

I am sure that there must be some statistics somewhere? Can’t anyone at least give us the facts? Only then would the case be able to stand, or fall, on the real issues, instead of some petty empire-building civil servant, trying to grab a few more pounds to add to his budget.

Is the fishing (very appropriate title) minister or his department giving out any factual information, to at least enable us, you know the mugs who pays his salary, to apply a little gray matter of thought to the proposal, or is that asking just a tad to much?


poter


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[halcyon]

Re: The real figures????

Now come on, facts and figuers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The comparison with other water related activities would also be nice.

Brian

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[Fill]

Suggested penalties announced

See <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.houlston.freeserve.co.uk/drunkensailor.htm>here</A> for suggested penalties.

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[Heckler]

Re: Consulting? Who should be exempt from booze la

agree, summer - sunday - gin palaces - pwllheli - church bay - anchor - drinky poos - power back to pwllheli - oh we can beat that slow raggie back in to the channel doesnt matter i f we give him a good rattling about with our wash, why is that tosser waving his fist at us?
says it all
stu

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[jimi]

What you really need is

<hr width=100% size=1>I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha

 

[Benny1]

Pwllheli Powerboaters

I think you might be tarring us all with one brush here, but then again I have noticed a lot of posts on this thread are anti-motorboat and anti motorboaters. We are all humans after all, who would probably get on in 'normal' life.

It is however a shame that a large number of powerboaters and yachties seem to dislike the other bunch intensely, purely because they enjoy different ways of having fun on the water. I always think this is such a shame and have tried to get on well with all boaters, no matter how they have their fun.

However, I have found that some raggies are reluctant to talk to you simply because you are of the powerboating fraternity, whilst others are more than happy to engage in good conversations. Indeed, some of my best boating 'chats' have been with raggies - as you compare each other's days and what you can and can't achieve in a yacht or a powerboat. I have found several lifelong raggies who are more than interested in powerboats and are full of questions - as I am about their respective yachts.

Whilst it is true that some motorboaters are a little inconsiderate, so are some yachtties. I know I am raking over old coals here but the general tone of some of the comments on this thread has been pretty biggoted (on both sides of the fence), and I find it more than a little frustrating.

As for the booze issue, I don't really think its a massive problem as most of the boaters I know (power and sail) are sensible on the booze front. There are however exceptions - on both sides of the power/sail fence - and it is these that are a danger.

It is also important to remember that a yacht under power is effectively a motorboat and is just as dangerous to swimmers and other 'smaller' water users in the environs where most accidents of the type being discussed happen - ie close to shore and in harbours/marinas.

As for the powerboaters in Pwllheli and their prediliction for whizzing up to the channel entrance - I can see your point, and understand that it will be irritating, but if you cannot cope with a 2 or 3 foot wave you really should go boating on a lake rather than at sea.

Also rememebr that a large motorboat at 10 knots will create a wash three times the size than it would at 25 knots as it will have fallen off the plane.

Have a Happy (and safe) boating season.

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: Pwllheli Powerboaters

>>As for the powerboaters in Pwllheli and their prediliction for whizzing up to the channel entrance - I can see your point, and understand that it will be irritating, but if you cannot cope with a 2 or 3 foot wave you really should go boating on a lake rather than at sea.<<

I was agreeing with your post right up to here, I can not think of one natural phenonimom which creates a wave like a power boat. None at all, unless of course someone starts dropping boulders into the sea and I happen to be sailing through the ripples.

We can all take bigger waves, raggies more than the big planing power boats, surely you must get thrown about by them too if you are sat at anchor or on your mooring. Have you ever been buzzed by a raggie at 15 kts.

Sorry, but your argument is false, and makes out that powerboats need not be considerate because 'all waves are the same'

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[longjohnsilver]

Re: Pwllheli Powerboaters

If it's any consolation I get really pissed off with larger planing boats going by at full pelt, and I have a 32' semi displacement boat! Either I'm left rocking and rolling for what seems like ages or I have to turn directly into their wash nad accept that I'll be thrown around for a few seconds. Either way it's a pain in the arse.

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[duncan]

Re: Pwllheli Powerboaters

me2

have you noticed the magnetic effect of any other craft on manually helmed boats? I find I have to fight the effect really hard when helming and do not appreciate it when others fail in their attempts!

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