Construction - Shetland Family Four?

[rbcoomer]

Hi All,

This is a bit of a long shot, but here goes anyway...

A friend has purchased a Shetland Family Four as a bit of a 'project'... (Thankfully not me this time, so I can be a bit more objective! )

One of the first issues to tackle is that there's rather more water inside the boat than out, but the bilge only appears to encompass the very stern-most section under the outboard well. Thus it never drains from unde amidships/bow areas. This section under the cabin etc appears to be waterlogged (tide just above floor level) and we think filled with foam. He's now covered the boat (which is on-shore, sitting on a trailer) with a tarp, pending a waterproofing exercise and new cover. He's bailed out a few times before the tarp was put over, and it refills - we think through window seals and poor cover. The floor feels solid, but then so did most of my Arrowbolt and yet under a thick layer of GRP, was composted ply!

There's no power where the boat is currently stored, so I'm taking down a generator and some cutting tools tomorrow to start opening up the floor! His plan is to remove all the foam and then drill through the bulkhead forward of the bilge so that water can drain into bilge/out through the bung. There isn't enough access to do this the other way from within the existing bilge area. He also wants to create some storage bins in the centre of the floor along the lines of a ski-locker. On this basis, I've suggested we cut a couple of holes no bigger than the width of proposed locker hatches so that we can assess the area under the floor. Plan B would be to remove the entire floor (cabin and helm area) and dry out before replacing. He realises that he may have to do this anyway.

I wonder if anyone has encountered/attempted similar on a Shetland and knows the structure under the floors? Pictures would be a bonus! We think there might be full width/height ribs across the beam in addition to longitudinal stringers, but that's largely based on hearsay/assumption and I've not yet been able to find any drawings/images. It may be that we have to remove all the floor anyway and I think that's what he expects, but my instinct is to minimise the extent of the work until we know more. First hand experience has taught me how much work can be involved and he reckons on being back on the water by May '16...

Cheers,

Robin

 

[BruceK]

Your friend isn't the first. It's a recurring theme with some shetland models. Pleanty of info and help in this forum below if you ask.

http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/forums/boat-owning-equipment-and-maintenance.77/

The general consensus seems to be to remove the foam and fill with those plastic ballpit balls. Ask about there, you will get plenty of help.

just one example

http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/threads/heavy-shetland536.4297462/

 

[rbcoomer]

Your friend isn't the first. It's a recurring theme with some shetland models. Pleanty of info and help in this forum below if you ask.

http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/forums/boat-owning-equipment-and-maintenance.77/

The general consensus seems to be to remove the foam and fill with those plastic ballpit balls. Ask about there, you will get plenty of help.

just one example

http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/threads/heavy-shetland536.4297462/

Thanks - I will send him there! Looks like the whole floor maybe coming out tomorrow then...

 

[Seastoke]

i cut the floor out when we had a 4plus 2 and made a water tank out of fiber glass

 

[rbmatthews]

We also have a Shetland F4 which we bought as a project, 8 years ago now. Water ingress is a recurring problem with them, coming from a number of sources including the window seals, and we spent a lot of time tracking them down one by one and fixing them. Touch wood, we do seem to have fixed them all now. We didn't cut into the deck as you are planning to do, but over a year or so, extracted all the water from underneath through the cabin table socket and also from the cockpit through the access holes there with a syringe. It took a while, but we got it all out, and once all the leaks were fixed, it has stayed as dry as a bone inside. Every year I have the socket out and check, but no water for a few years now. We have also fitted a bilge pump.

Further details are on our website below - have a look under the Reburbishment tab.

I have seen pictures of underneath the decking on others' boats, and as far as I remember, there are horizontal ribs from one side to the other. No idea of the number and distance between them though, I am afraid.

Hope this helps.

 

[rbcoomer]

Thanks - really useful and good to hear that it can be dried. This one fills to the top of the table socket and thus we fear is waterlogged below. I think both the windows and anchor locker are prime suspects. We both felt that the moisture would be trapped below and apart from rotting the timbers, would make the vessel very heavy. It currently has a 40hp and won't plane, but have seen similar comments with a 55hp - a bigger motor is on his agenda I think once the issues are sorted. He's a former racer who retired due to broken back, so I'm currently trying to convince him that a 120hp Tohatsu he has already may just be too big for the Shetland!

The reason for asking about the ribs was to do with extracting the water - if they are indeed full height/width, then they'd effectively form a bulkhead and thus each section would need opening up and drying. If the foam hasn't degraded then theoretically it could be dried out by lifting the water from the bottom, but if it's absorbed the water then this would presumably take forever without opening right up and removing the foam?

As he wants a couple of storage bins anyway, I think we'll still cut one and dig out some foam, then access from there. Knowing where the ribs are would help locating access panels, but we can always repair and re-glass floor if necessary once dry. I'll take the camera and try to get some pictures.

P.S. Great site RBMatthews - I'll read some more of that later and also forward to the guy who's got the Family Four :encouragement:

Cheers,

Robin

 

[rbcoomer]

i cut the floor out when we had a 4plus 2 and made a water tank out of fiber glass

Do you happen to recall the structure under the floor and in particular, location and size of the supporting timbers running across the beam? (see post above for reasoning behind this )

 

[Seastoke]

Do you happen to recall the structure under the floor and in particular, location and size of the supporting timbers running across the beam? (see post above for reasoning behind this )

sorry rob 20 yrs ago but even though we have a big boat for me trailing is the best boating ever

 

[petem]

We also have a Shetland F4 which we bought as a project, 8 years ago now. Water ingress is a recurring problem with them, coming from a number of sources including the window seals, and we spent a lot of time tracking them down one by one and fixing them. Touch wood, we do seem to have fixed them all now. We didn't cut into the deck as you are planning to do, but over a year or so, extracted all the water from underneath through the cabin table socket and also from the cockpit through the access holes there with a syringe. It took a while, but we got it all out, and once all the leaks were fixed, it has stayed as dry as a bone inside. Every year I have the socket out and check, but no water for a few years now. We have also fitted a bilge pump.

Further details are on our website below - have a look under the Reburbishment tab.

I have seen pictures of underneath the decking on others' boats, and as far as I remember, there are horizontal ribs from one side to the other. No idea of the number and distance between them though, I am afraid.

Hope this helps.

Just read all your.articles. Great stuff.

 

[blues-n-twos]

I spent a year refurbishing my family 4. It's now on the water but I too had a soggy bottom :nonchalance:

In the transom well if you feel down to the bottom there should be a hole designed for water ingress to drain out into the well. It may be blocked. I drilled a bigger hole and got a tractor to lift the boat up at the front and left it for a few days to drain.

It's dry now but also check the anchor locker for water ingress.

I have lots of shetland parts left over so I may be able to assist and I have an album of pictures from my refurb if you need any help etc

All the best

Jon

 

[rbcoomer]

sorry rob 20 yrs ago but even though we have a big boat for me trailing is the best boating ever

No problem - we attacked with a cutter on Friday! Transpired that there are no lateral supports and the entire area under the cabin sole was waterlogged. Some of the foam seemed to drain, but some was well and truly sodden so he opted to remove the cabin floor completely and cut a hatch in the open cockpit area. The aim is now to try and extract the foam from under the cockpit area via the hatch, but in reality this may not be possible and floor may have to come up. We hoped that if we could redrill through into the bilge, it could drain. I fear however that until the floor is out, it will take an eternity to dry? Unfortunately there's no power where the boat is stored, so will need to do a few more trips with genny to remove the remainder of floor if that becomes necessary! We cut a couple of test holes with a 5" hole cutter first to assess which areas were wet or not, but although the forward part of the cockpit seemed dry, we think this just happens to be above the high tide level... :ambivalence:

Cockpit (cutting undersized hatch)

Same hole -water level

Cabin access hole - waterlogged. Entire floor & foam now out!

I spent a year refurbishing my family 4. It's now on the water but I too had a soggy bottom :nonchalance:

In the transom well if you feel down to the bottom there should be a hole designed for water ingress to drain out into the well. It may be blocked. I drilled a bigger hole and got a tractor to lift the boat up at the front and left it for a few days to drain.

It's dry now but also check the anchor locker for water ingress.

I have lots of shetland parts left over so I may be able to assist and I have an album of pictures from my refurb if you need any help etc

All the best

Jon

Thanks Jon, I'll point him to this thread. :encouragement:

We are suspicious of the anchor locker and one window, but until he can dry and monitor for water ingress its been guesswork! We did think there should be a hole into the bilge, but there isn't - perhaps omitted or previously filled? This is one of the things that needs to be rectified but can't get access via the bilge as not enough room, so planning on drilling through from under the floor when the foam (or at least centre section of) is removed. I think the favourite idea is currently to create a removable ski locker - or at least one with a removable base to facilitate access to the bilge.

Thanks all for the thoughts and advice.

Cheers,

Robin