Considering switching from sail to mobo.

[gjgm]

I think I understand why you are doing all these little assessmenst and calculations, but in the end, you also know it is all a bit pointless. On the day, the wind,sea,sunshine and your own plans will dictate what you decide to do that day. You might blast across Lyme Bay at full chat, or you might decide to take it easy along the coast, stopping here and there. You'll just end up knowing that to go to X will cost £1k, and if that is for a long enough stay, you decide it is worth it, and if it isnt, then you do something else. You dont decide £857 is ok, but £1k isnt.
If you are going to get a calculator out each time, a mobo probably isnt for you; you probably will enjoy reading your bank statement more
Far more important is to get a boat that fits your needs, whether that is a bit sharper V, or safer walkaround,or a bigger cabin. Whether your fuel bill is +/- a few grand isnt going to make you enjoy your boating more or less, unless being able to afford it at all is very borderline - and then you probably wont enjoy it either.
Very few planing boats over 35ft are going to give you 2mpg. Forget the brochure nonsense.. add fuel, fresh water, and the 500kg of junk that seems to morph into the boat and start thinking more towards 1.5-1mpg. Also, while with a sailing boat you are underway all the time, with a mobo you are actually at anchor,having lunch or whatever the majority of the time,and this doesnt burn any fuel at all !
It would be an interesting question on here.. does anyone actually use more fuel than they expected, each year ?Our usage seems to be +/-15pct and it doesnt seem to matter if that is a supposed disaster of a season (2012 which we thought was pretty ok) , or a great season (2013, which it was !)

 

[kashurst]

the way I deal with the fuel cost is to set a fuel budget for the year, pyschologically I have already spent the money so each time I buy more fuel its part of an already "mentally agreed" allowance. I don't tell swmbo how much I spend on fuel and she doesn't ask - we are both happy.
If you start working out cost per trip or hour then you will very quickly become unhappy with boats. Start to add in depreciation (the biggest cost by far), maintenance, antifouling, anodes, one or two jet washes, spares, mooring charges away from home berth and then work out the real total cost per day no-one would ever buy a boat for fun. All boats are very expensive - some are more expensive than others.

 

[Garold]

Thanks again for all the posts and honest opinion. It's a bit slow, but the discussion is moving my thoughts forward.

I understand that cost calculations per journey are not realistic and would, if I persisted, take the fun out of my hobby.

However, as I consider a change from a 'sailing' boat to a mobo, the mpg figures would seem to be one of many necessary financial considerations (which is also only one of the many other 'considerations'). Apologies though for putting everyone through the pain with my 'public' analysis.

But, the good news is, I'm done. The analysis of fuel costs is over.

I have decided to make the switch and the cost of fuel will not hold me back. However, 2mpg or thereabouts is probably the lower limit of my fuel-cost-tolerance threshold. It's not an affordability issue, it's just that I don't want to spend more on fuel. At 2mpg, if I want to go from Southampton to Studland Bay for an overnight, I shan't have any reluctance (even if I want to burn fuel and go as fast as the conditions will permit). And if it's Alderney for an extended sunny summer weekend, I won't feel compelled to do it at 7 knots to save fuel. I guess that we all need to establish our own individual cost/benefit comfort zone. And that's mine.

So, that means that boats such as the Princess 42 and anything similar are no longer on my list. I'm just not up for the fuel costs associated with this class of mobo.

In the first instance, I need to go smaller then. Maybe 33-37 foot. I guess that then we will be pushing less weight, and so smaller engines, and so I hit my mpg target. And I'd like to consider single engine boats (probably with an upgrade to racor filters etc etc).

But what?

I still want to do short and long trips. But a few times a year I need to break out of home-ground boating (which is Chichester to Weymouth). The rest of the Channel needs to be still within my cruising capabilities.

I have a few thoughts of boat types that may suit:

Jeanneau NC11

Nimbus 365 coupe

Marex 370, 350, 320

Or any other ideas welcome.

Cheers

G

 

[rustybarge]

Thanks again for all the posts and honest opinion. It's a bit slow, but the discussion is moving my thoughts forward.

I understand that cost calculations per journey are not realistic and would, if I persisted, take the fun out of my hobby.

However, as I consider a change from a 'sailing' boat to a mobo, the mpg figures would seem to be one of many necessary financial considerations (which is also only one of the many other 'considerations'). Apologies though for putting everyone through the pain with my 'public' analysis.

But, the good news is, I'm done. The analysis of fuel costs is over.

I have decided to make the switch and the cost of fuel will not hold me back. However, 2mpg or thereabouts is probably the lower limit of my fuel-cost-tolerance threshold. It's not an affordability issue, it's just that I don't want to spend more on fuel. At 2mpg, if I want to go from Southampton to Studland Bay for an overnight, I shan't have any reluctance (even if I want to burn fuel and go as fast as the conditions will permit). And if it's Alderney for an extended sunny summer weekend, I won't feel compelled to do it at 7 knots to save fuel. I guess that we all need to establish our own individual cost/benefit comfort zone. And that's mine.

So, that means that boats such as the Princess 42 and anything similar are no longer on my list. I'm just not up for the fuel costs associated with this class of mobo.

In the first instance, I need to go smaller then. Maybe 33-37 foot. I guess that then we will be pushing less weight, and so smaller engines, and so I hit my mpg target. And I'd like to consider single engine boats (probably with an upgrade to racor filters etc etc).

But what?

I still want to do short and long trips. But a few times a year I need to break out of home-ground boating (which is Chichester to Weymouth). The rest of the Channel needs to be still within my cruising capabilities.

I have a few thoughts of boat types that may suit:

Jeanneau NC11

Nimbus 365 coupe

Marex 370, 350, 320

Or any other ideas welcome.

Cheers

G

you've only short listed foreign boats!

the Aquastar 33' oceanranger is available with a single engine: 275hp/ 16kts max: 12kts cruise/ 2.5mpg.....
Serious sea boat, 2005 boats about £150k, but earlier boats are much cheaper.

View attachment 36544

 

[Avalon]

Maybe an Aquador 32c with a single diesel...

like this one...

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2008/Aquador-32C-2522812/United-Kingdom#.UnKoaPN****

 

[RogerRat]

, do note that Antares is simply one of the model line ups from Beneteau. as I read it was that Antares was a brand in its own right. It is the equivalent model from Beneteau as the Merry Fisher is from Jeanneau.

Hey, no argument here. In this instance, I was suggesting the Antares for strength, build quality and sea keeping over the lighter Beneteaus'. Where as you may prefer Jeanneau models over the Merry Fishers'. I actually like the smaller Merry Fishers.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Jeanneau motor boats, although I think they have a great offering in the Merry Fisher line up. The French, for me, make far better sailing boats than motor cruisers'. I don't want to knock them on open forum as I know quite a few people that are very happy owners and feel they offer an excellent value option. They also offer a very good upgrade path as did Sealine for owners that wish to move up to something larger.

Another poster mentioned Swift Trawler 42. What about the Swift 34? quite spacious. Or my little favourite, the Corvette 320. Excellent value, very spacious, 'tardus' like with a good performance when required but happy to poodle along at 8-12 knots.

 

[Garold]

Hey, no argument here. In this instance, I was suggesting the Antares for strength, build quality and sea keeping over the lighter Beneteaus'. Where as you may prefer Jeanneau models over the Merry Fishers'. I actually like the smaller Merry Fishers.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Jeanneau motor boats, although I think they have a great offering in the Merry Fisher line up. The French, for me, make far better sailing boats than motor cruisers'. I don't want to knock them on open forum as I know quite a few people that are very happy owners and feel they offer an excellent value option. They also offer a very good upgrade path as did Sealine for owners that wish to move up to something larger.

Another poster mentioned Swift Trawler 42. What about the Swift 34? quite spacious. Or my little favourite, the Corvette 320. Excellent value, very spacious, 'tardus' like with a good performance when required but happy to poodle along at 8-12 knots.

I like both the Corvette (even the name's fantastic), and the Swift but I think that neither will be economical enough for me.

But I will try to do some research and check this out.

Cheers

G

 

[vas]

watching this tread with academic, I should say, interest.
However Garold I cannot but note that you do seem to consider running costs way above capital costs, which for a s/h boat that may be 5 or may be 15yo does make a hell of a difference (IMHO). Care to comment? And no, i'm not talking depreciation, just value of money put on a boat...
OTOH, I've no idea how much money you have to invest once you sell your sailing cat, but it could be an option to invest the "leftovers" and spent the interest in fuel

cheers

V.

 

[speedfiend]

In a nutshell my 42 footer costs £20k a year (tops ) to run doing around 25 knots average cruising speed, average 120hrs per year, covering maybe 800 miles per year. Includes servicing, mooring,fuel , maintenance and absolutely everything.
1-1.5 mpg at planing speeds but much less at crawling pace 6-7knts.

 

[Garold]

watching this tread with academic, I should say, interest.
However Garold I cannot but note that you do seem to consider running costs way above capital costs, which for a s/h boat that may be 5 or may be 15yo does make a hell of a difference (IMHO). Care to comment? And no, i'm not talking depreciation, just value of money put on a boat...
OTOH, I've no idea how much money you have to invest once you sell your sailing cat, but it could be an option to invest the "leftovers" and spent the interest in fuel

cheers

V.

Yes, you are right.

I think it's called OCD.

Drive myself round the bend most of the time.

But, putting this aside for a moment, I kind of start with the running costs on most purchase decisions. And I listened to the general yachtie opinion that mobos are unaffordable to even fuel for the normal bloke, so I had to drill down to the detail. And I have.

There's worse to come I'm afraid. Because then I follow through with other equally neurotic analytic steps.

For the moment, I'm just considering as many options as possible that may be affordable and possibly meet our touring requirements. And then I will have to eliminate a few on other grounds such as residual values, ease of fixing, durability etc.

Getting back to one of your points, I try not to address the cost of the capital when boating. On a significantly depreciating asset such as a boat, the cost of capital calculation may push me over the edge and put me off the whole thing. Having said that, across a number of mortgages etc. I think I'm averaging about 3% at the minute, so the cost of capital ain't what it used to be. (Until interest rates begin to rise of course).

But you're right. I shall take your prompt to lighten up and remember that it's supposed to be fun.

Cheers

Garold

 

[Garold]

In a nutshell my 42 footer costs £20k a year (tops ) to run doing around 25 knots average cruising speed, average 120hrs per year, covering maybe 800 miles per year. Includes servicing, mooring,fuel , maintenance and absolutely everything.
1-1.5 mpg at planing speeds but much less at crawling pace 6-7knts.

Thanks for your info. As odd as it seems, I only really had the yachtie stories of abhorrent mobo running costs to go off before I really started to analyse the figures more closely.

Cheers

Garold

 

[Andy Bav]

Thanks for your info. As odd as it seems, I only really had the yachtie stories of abhorrent mobo running costs to go off before I really started to analyse the figures more closely.

Cheers

Garold

There ia a saying "analysis paralysis".....

As highlighted above you can still go everywhere at 6 knots and your fuel burn wont be much different, but you could choose to go faster in a mobo - and thats a choice you dont have now.

You are right to look at worst case scenarios as far as fuel burn is concrned, but with that forming such an initial hurdle you may make a compromise on other factors that you may regret later - for the sake of x mpg difference.

In your cost calculations, have you netted off the berthing cost savings both at home marina and as a visitor elsewhere ?

 

[rustybarge]

There ia a saying "analysis paralysis".....

As highlighted above you can still go everywhere at 6 knots and your fuel burn wont be much different, but you could choose to go faster in a mobo - and thats a choice you dont have now.

You are right to look at worst case scenarios as far as fuel burn is concrned, but with that forming such an initial hurdle you may make a compromise on other factors that you may regret later - for the sake of x mpg difference.

In your cost calculations, have you netted off the berthing cost savings both at home marina and as a visitor elsewhere ?

What you need is two different engines in your boat, a small one for displ. speed, and a big one for fast cruise....

I've been musing over this exact idea 'in another place' :http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/new-hybrid-small-diesel-big-ob-33-s-d-hull-48755.html

 

[Garold]

There ia a saying "analysis paralysis".....

Painfully acute observation.

But I guess that you're right.

However, I seem to be wired that way.

I think 30 years of running my own and family businesses, makes me a bit more cautious. If it goes wrong after a decision, it's always me that has to sort out the mess. So I tend to be excessively cautious on most decisions.

And I usually just work through the 'paralysis' stage!

Kind of 'feel the fear and end up doing it anyway (eventually)'. Though I clearly have to be sure that I have thought things through and maybe clearly identified any pitfalls.

Cheers

Garold

 

[Garold]

For those that took an interest so far in this thread, thanks for the comments and thoughts.

To update the thread, I'm pleased to say that we appear to have now sold our current boat. The deposit has been received, survey done, and contracts signed. It isn't done till all the money comes in, but this should be some time over the Xmas holidays.

So, we are now looking at mobo adverts with a little more intent.

We haven't identified anything that completely meets all our random and often conflicting list of requirements but we are continuing the search.

At this rate, the search may unusually be much longer than it took to sell our current boat.

Cheers

Garold

Ps If my sale goes through, I would say that John Rodriguez at JRYACHTS.COM is a bit of a wizard.

 

[Andy Bav]

For those that took an interest so far in this thread, thanks for the comments and thoughts.

To update the thread, I'm pleased to say that we appear to have now sold our current boat. The deposit has been received, survey done, and contracts signed. It isn't done till all the money comes in, but this should be some time over the Xmas holidays.

So, we are now looking at mobo adverts with a little more intent.

We haven't identified anything that completely meets all our random and often conflicting list of requirements but we are continuing the search.

At this rate, the search may unusually be much longer than it took to sell our current boat.

Cheers

Garold

Ps If my sale goes through, I would say that John Rodriguez at JRYACHTS.COM is a bit of a wizard.

LIBS + Cash buyer = ? .... perhaps the world is your oyster now... good luck !