Considering switching from sail to mobo.

[Andy Bav]

Thinking about it, a boat that suits all of our sailing requirements probably doesn't exist. A boat that is best to shoot down to Yarmouth for a short weekend probably isn't best suited to the annual trip around various Channel destinations. But I suppose I still have to look for the best compromise, because I think that we have it not-quite-right at the minute.


G

Exactly the dilemma we had. Trying to cater for 3 sons who like water sports but want to sleep overnight on board and in comfort was impossible....something had to go. As far as fuel is concerned though, when we go to Dartmouth, on a nice day we'll poodle around at around 4-8 litres an hour and enjoy the wildlife / scenery, other times we'll clatter around at closer to 60 lph (according to VP gauges anyway) and then trundle up to Totnes at between 2 and 3 lph. Its not all about guzzling huge amounts, and if you are used to 6kts, on a good day you may stick at that tempo anyway, but with the knowledge you have more options.

 

[Avalon]

The Greenline boats ARE available without the Hybrid stuff, and are a lot cheaper that way. I imagine that most of the ones they sell are non-hybrid. As someone said, the hybrid only really makes sense for Inland waterways.

 

[rustybarge]

Yes. Good idea.

I think I need to experience the motion of a planing 40 footer.

But just at the moment I am exploring all the possible options before I make the next step to charter days, test sails etc.

I do know that I've thought about his as much as I can on my own.

G

Just as very rough guide:

Patrol type boats: 27'/ 3 tons/ 300 hp / 20kts/ ......3mpg. Petrol OB ribs about the same.
Gold Standard: Botnia Targa, can maintain plane down to just over 10 kts. tiny wheel house.

Single engine S/D boats: 5 tons / 300hp/ 6.5 gls.hr/ 12-15 kts.......2mpg.
Nimbus, Marex, Broom, etc....

twin engine 33' boats:......... 1.5 mpg
Hardy...etc

Twin engine Boats over 10 mtr: 1 mpg.......

To get an idea of the running costs, look at how much it costs to cruise 100 nm.....sit down first.
...or a jaunt: couple hours up the coast, return, at 2 mpg @ 20kts= 40gals= €280 in fuel.

Every engineering solution comes with a compromise......

 

[Garold]

The Greenline boats ARE available without the Hybrid stuff, and are a lot cheaper that way. I imagine that most of the ones they sell are non-hybrid. As someone said, the hybrid only really makes sense for Inland waterways.

Thanks for the info.

I hadn't realised.

G

 

[Garold]

Just as very rough guide:

Patrol type boats: 27'/ 3 tons/ 300 hp / 20kts/ ......3mpg. Petrol OB ribs about the same.
Gold Standard: Botnia Targa, can maintain plane down to just over 10 kts. tiny wheel house.

Single engine S/D boats: 5 tons / 300hp/ 6.5 gls.hr/ 12-15 kts.......2mpg.
Nimbus, Marex, Broom, etc....

twin engine 33' boats:......... 1.5 mpg
Hardy...etc

Twin engine Boats over 10 mtr: 1 mpg.......

To get an idea of the running costs, look at how much it costs to cruise 100 nm.....sit down first.
...or a jaunt: couple hours up the coast, return, at 2 mpg @ 20kts= 40gals= €280 in fuel.

Every engineering solution comes with a compromise......

Thanks for the info.

G

 

[Garold]

Exactly the dilemma we had. Trying to cater for 3 sons who like water sports but want to sleep overnight on board and in comfort was impossible....something had to go. As far as fuel is concerned though, when we go to Dartmouth, on a nice day we'll poodle around at around 4-8 litres an hour and enjoy the wildlife / scenery, other times we'll clatter around at closer to 60 lph (according to VP gauges anyway) and then trundle up to Totnes at between 2 and 3 lph. Its not all about guzzling huge amounts, and if you are used to 6kts, on a good day you may stick at that tempo anyway, but with the knowledge you have more options.

I did have this thought.

I just wasn't sure if mobo owners did potter around some times.

G

Ps. Some mobos do the same mpg as the cat at 7-8 knots.

 

[henryf]

We had a Princess P42 and changed it for a P50. The extra size allows us to do charters.

I also looked at many options before jumping up to 50 feet. Displacement, semi displacement and so on. In the end we stuck with planing as it offers the best of everything. When time is short or the weather is less than hospitable we can use genuine 30 knot plus capability. It comes at a cost but you can get back before the weather turns and aren't out there for 10-12 hours at a time.

However when we are not in a rush and conditions allow we do potter. You mention a run down to Yarmouth, funnily enough that's probably the most common run we do at tick over. The Solent helps you with regular tidal currents both ways which generate the thick end of 10 knots at tick over for very frugal cruising. Of course having all that power on tap means we do use it, but we have a choice.

When we cruised the West Country this year we had some runs at 7 knots, others where we sat in the mid 20 knots. The point is if you want frugal cruising then just move at tick over. If you really want to save money use one engine.

Yes, the fit out will be more luxurious than the Lagoon. It depends on what you buy but in the case of your Princess option things will be very civilised. Handling is a doddle with 2 people.

Engine servicing will be more expensive but with shaft drive boats it isn't rude. You don't have to spend money on sails or rigging which does have a cost associated.


Henry

 

[rustybarge]

I did have this thought.

I just wasn't sure if mobo owners did potter around some times.

G

Ps. Some mobos do the same mpg as the cat at 7-8 knots.

I was way out when i quoted the Hardy 32 as doing nearly 2 mpg:

Hardy 32' twin 250hp:
MAIN DIMENSIONS (approx.)
Length (hull) 9.6m
Beam 3.6m Draught (normal trim) 0.9m Height above waterline (mast down) 2.7m Dr y weight 6.5t Fuel capacity (2 stainless tanks) 870l Water capacity (stainless tank) 340l

PERFORMANCE (approx.)
22 to 24 knots 6 to 22 knots about 3.5l/nautical mile at 20 knots.

That's 1.3mpg......or € 525 per 100 miles.

 

[z1ppy]

That e3 does it for me!

Really interesting thread,

 

[superheat6k]

I was a born to the core Raggie but went to the 'dark side' 6 years ago, and won't be going back. Yes the occasional broad reach under sail at 7 knots in a force 3-4 with fair tide cannot be beaten, but realistically if you have these conditions more than twice in a season and for more than 1 or 2 miles then you are very very lucky. Most of it at 5 knots heeled over doubling the distance due to tacking, heeled right over, stuck out in the wet and cold.

Now we cruise at 16 knots, and go directly to our destination. This year much better than last with all the local haunts, two Weymouth and one Brighton. Fuel used approx £2,000. But if you box clever the entire extra cost of a PB can be offset against reduced mooring fees.

My boat is a Fairline Turbo 36, which for reasons unfathomable is 40' loa (unless you are a harbourmaster!). If I keep an equivalent 40' yacht on any Hamble Marina I won't see any change from £8,000. But upstream above Bursledon Bridge this halves, and at the same time pays for ALL my fuel and extra maintenance costs for approx 80-100 hours.

SWMBO has all the comforts of home. Plenty of room to swing the cat, and even two loos.

And not a haliard nor sheet in sight !

So come on over - the dark side beckons.

 

[Bathdave]

The boss and I are planning to swing the other way....early retirement in one month, a bit of a lump sum to buy something to spend extended trips on, reduced income to pay the running costs, and plenty of time, instead of trying to fit a day or a weekends boating into a challenging job and and unpredictable weather. So a cruiser with flappy things and string beckons, so it becomes about the journey not the destination. Mind you love the sensation of blasting along at 20 knots and the sense of being able to come and go as we please rather than try and manage around the tides and currents of the CI .

Mind you if we won the lottery we would have both!!! Now that WOULD be the solution.

 

[Garold]

I was a born to the core Raggie but went to the 'dark side' 6 years ago, and won't be going back. Yes the occasional broad reach under sail at 7 knots in a force 3-4 with fair tide cannot be beaten, but realistically if you have these conditions more than twice in a season and for more than 1 or 2 miles then you are very very lucky. Most of it at 5 knots heeled over doubling the distance due to tacking, heeled right over, stuck out in the wet and cold.

Now we cruise at 16 knots, and go directly to our destination. This year much better than last with all the local haunts, two Weymouth and one Brighton. Fuel used approx £2,000. But if you box clever the entire extra cost of a PB can be offset against reduced mooring fees.

My boat is a Fairline Turbo 36, which for reasons unfathomable is 40' loa (unless you are a harbourmaster!). If I keep an equivalent 40' yacht on any Hamble Marina I won't see any change from £8,000. But upstream above Bursledon Bridge this halves, and at the same time pays for ALL my fuel and extra maintenance costs for approx 80-100 hours.

SWMBO has all the comforts of home. Plenty of room to swing the cat, and even two loos.

And not a haliard nor sheet in sight !

So come on over - the dark side beckons.

And that's one of my key conundrums. As much as I enjoy the absolute magic of sailing well in a suitable wind, it just happens so rarely, and less often in a direction that takes me where I want to go.

This season has been one of reliable good weather where we have often been able to journey on the planned days. But we usually motored to get to any planned destinations. And motoring must be better in a boat designed for the job. The option of greater speeds would be really handy too.

Garold

 

[hlb]

I can only speak of my P35, about the same size of a newer 40FT plus. It would cruise at 20 knots or above in nearly any weather, apart from directly on the nose, even then it had to be a short sea. Your One mile per gallon is about right. Though on a 600 mile cruise, I reckoned about 1.3. In really bad stuff, I'd settle her back to ten knots, when she would start to really grip the water, ok 8 knots if it got worse, but we would always be passing the sail boats. The slower speed, would mostly just last for say 15 minutes, before back up to 20 + knots.

We visited the Scillies three times, but had to leave early, because of weather. However Newlyn was only an hour and a half away, so no problem. These days fuel costs do need addressing.

 

[kashurst]

If you still find the urge to go sailing after the switch, you could always rent a sailing boat for a few days. Renting a sailing boat is a lot cheaper than renting a mtorboat.

 

[Nigelpickin]

Fuel cost, for me anyway, are a MacGuffin.
Depreciation, marina cost, and servicing all come out higher.
The ability to outrun weather, get to the marina before the rafting rag tops and generally enjoy time alongside as opposed to time at sea are key.
It might just be me but the planing boats that I have had have been very comfortable pottering along at 1,000 rpm with a very low burn rate but the temptation to cruise at planing speed is usually too strong.
The wife and I often look at sail boats and wonder 'if the day will ever come?', we always come to the same conclusion, we like being there more than we like getting there, so while we can afford it we will always buy the most comfortable, fastest boat that we can...

 

[beebok]

Hi Garold we changed from sail to motor last year.We love being on the water but we both do not like long passages of
10 hours or more.We left Brest returning to St Peters Port about 7 hours that for us was really good.So we spent money
on fuel but we enjoyed the tripe.
Our sailboat had a good size aft cabin with centre line berth,motor boats with aft cabins are even better thats worth
considering.
Alan

 

[Garold]

Hi Garold we changed from sail to motor last year.We love being on the water but we both do not like long passages of
10 hours or more.We left Brest returning to St Peters Port about 7 hours that for us was really good.So we spent money
on fuel but we enjoyed the tripe.
Our sailboat had a good size aft cabin with centre line berth,motor boats with aft cabins are even better thats worth
considering.
Alan

Thanks for the encouragement Alan.

But if you don't mind...

What type of yacht did you migrate from? And what type of motorboat did you purchase?

I'm still a bit shocked at the minute when I do the arithmetic and work out the fuel costs for any of our usual journeys, short or long, in a motor boat. Even though I know that if we do the same speed as we currently do in the catamaran, it would be about the same cost. But I guess the point of having a mobo for me is to speed up the longer journeys so I have to assume that I will probably going faster.

Cheers

G

 

[rustybarge]

Thanks for the encouragement Alan.

But if you don't mind...

What type of yacht did you migrate from? And what type of motorboat did you purchase?

I'm still a bit shocked at the minute when I do the arithmetic and work out the fuel costs for any of our usual journeys, short or long, in a motor boat. Even though I know that if we do the same speed as we currently do in the catamaran, it would be about the same cost. But I guess the point of having a mobo for me is to speed up the longer journeys so I have to assume that I will probably going faster.

Cheers

G

A couple of people on the forum have gone for the modern technology solution, a Merry Fisher or Antares 8.80 (shared hull) with a single 300hp leanburn Suzuki, much smaller than you wanted, but returning over 4mpg!
would make a perfect weekend boat.

The new outboards exactly match the fuel consumtion of the equivalent diesel, but half the weight and half the cost.

if you 'search' the forum there's a few threads about their boats.

 

[superheat6k]

And that's one of my key conundrums. As much as I enjoy the absolute magic of sailing well in a suitable wind, it just happens so rarely, and less often in a direction that takes me where I want to go.

This season has been one of reliable good weather where we have often been able to journey on the planned days. But we usually motored to get to any planned destinations. And motoring must be better in a boat designed for the job. The option of greater speeds would be really handy too.

Garold

If you want to try a flybridge PB I suggest you contact Elessar of this parish for a day charter on Evenstar.

+ 1 for aft cabin PBs, but the choice available is limited: Fairline Turbo 36, Corvette 32, Aquastar 33 or 38, Sealine F43, Broom all worth a look.

 

[Greg2]

We very nearly went the other way from power to sail and one of the major considerations was the ever increasing cost of fuel. We sold our Targa 35, looked at lots of yachts and were on the cusp of making an offer when we started to have second thoughts. Long story short we ended up with our truly superb Broom 41, which provides fantastic and very comfortable accommodation in a very capable sea boat that works really well on the river too.

Why did we change our minds? Well, the main factors were that we really wanted to do river and sea cruising, long periods at sea in the North Sea didn't necessarily appeal and we gave the fuel issue a lot of thought and concluded that it wouldn't actually be the major annual expense.

Whilst the Broom has a planing hull there is a skeg keel so she tracks very well on the river and at low speed at sea. I have never really understood the assertion that a displacement hull is better/more comfortable at low speeds at sea as we roll a lot less and cope with lumpy stuff with relative ease. In the right conditions we will run at displacement speed with the tide and at other times we will run on the plane, which for us is around 17 to 18 knots.

Two seasons on and fuel isn't worrying us too much and our East Coast and upper Thames cruise this year was truly superb. Okay, we spent some money on diesel but we had a great family holiday and the overall cost wasn't outrageous.

As suggested, chartering a yacht abroad is an option and we got our sailing fix in the BVI last year where the wind was always blowing under blue skies and sunshine.

Overall a mobo in the UK and the odd sailing charter abroad is the way to go for us. Once you make the switch I doubt very much that you will regret it.