Compulsary Cert of Competence

While we were in Greece last year on flotilla. On of the boats unfortunately anchored on the Poros water pipe. The whole flotilla was stuck in port untill all the skippers could provide some form of qualification.

If we all had had ICC or something similar then the matter would have been resolved in a couple of hours rather being stuck in Poros for almost 48 hours.

The flotilla co had to make up certificates to show our qualifications otherwise the boats would have been stuck in Poros for weeks. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Graham
 
____________________
The flotilla co had to make up certificates to show our qualifications otherwise the boats would have been stuck in Poros for weeks
_______________________________

What certification did the flotilla people make up????
 
So maybe the RYA are right and Sunsail just make it up as they go along???? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
Re: ICC - validity & who qualifies?

What flags were these vessels?
In back of my mind (a dark & lonely place) I seem to remember that ICC's issued by the RYA, are only available to British Nationals & only valid on British flagged vessels.
If the charter/flotilla yacht is Greek/Spanish etc, then ICC is not valid.
Anyone confirm this?
 
Re: Sailfree to France

''What bits of paper were you asked for in France please? ''
They wanted the boats call sign and therefore the piece of paper issued for that. And they were very nice about it too (I actually like the French a lot,great to sail with)
 
Re: Sailfree to France

Got to say our experience with the French has always been good especially on one occasion when SWMBO heard her daughter was in a UK hospital. Went to local wine cave where we had bought wine the day before asking for a Taxi urgently to get to La Gare for train to Nante to catch afternoon flight. With our bad French he took us next door where the cafe owner spoke good English. Cafe owner took off his apron told the chef he was in charge and took us to station in his car explaining that if we waited for a Taxi we would miss train!

I know that not everyones experiences with French officialdom is as good though.
 
Re: Sailfree to France

Going foreign has requirements that are far removed from compulsory certification in this country. If you visit foreign countries it's in your own interest to abide by their requirements. That is something for the voyager to concern themselves with.
Not the rest of the boating enthusiasts who have no intention of travelling beyond home waters.
 
Re: Sailfree to France

Lots of reasons being given for why bits of paper CAN be useful but none for why we should ALL be compelled to have one.

If you want to do any sailing that requires one go ahead and get one but why the hell should I have to have one?

I'm with LakeSailor on this.
 
Re: qualifications

First, j'accuse: NAS is really Jack Nicholson.
Learning as you go along may or may not be fine, but there is a saying that goes: "experience is an expensive school, and a fool learns in no other". I raised the issue of tuition in a thread (labeled colregs).
I have been at sea for 34 years as a fisherman, and I took steps to inform myself. I was in a square-rigger in Antwerp, and it was suggested I should take the young kids round the fleet in the DOTI boat: the skipper agreed, but I thought I'd better check with the mate who said, correctly, no way. I hadn't got the relevant cert, and the insurance wouldn't stand it. A fisherman friend of mine is a part time retained fireman, but still had to take the firefighting at sea course. I took the YM course and it is really good, but there should be a basic cert for anyone going to sea in anything, just to do basic rules of the road, radio procedure, minor stuff that can be a complete mystery if you weren't brought up with wet feet.
 
Steve
I'm pretty certain that you can just take an exam. I'll try to find out for you, but seem to remember someone in Scotland doing this. I also think its worthwhile contacting the RYA to see if you can get an exemption based upon your existing qualifications.

The RYA is composed of many different individuals, and lots of them have come from 'been sailing all my life with no qualification' backgrounds before deciding for one reason or another to take RYA exams. They are not usually unsympathetic to those who have loads of experience and/or other qualifications. Their interest is in promoting high standards in boating, not simply in selling courses.

For example, my husband, who is now the Principal of an RYA Cruising School, did his first RYA certificate about 10 years ago. (I should say that he did have 30 years experience sailing and teaching beforehand and some naval certificates). He and a friend took a 2 day preperation and then the Yachtmaster practical exam. It didn't cost an enormous amount as both the prep course and exam were done in our own 31footer.

You can study theory from a book or CD, and get your ICC by being tested in your own boat, so cost shouldn't really be a deterrent for anyone getting qualifications if they want them.

I am not sure whether it would improve standards generally to have compulsory certification but it might get rid of some of the total idiots who know absolutely nothing when they first go to sea.

When my father started driving you didn't need to pass a test to have a driving licence. Would anyone be happy now if people were granted licences without at least proving they knew the highway code and could drive safely (if only on the day of the test?). Does anyone think that our roads would be safer and driving standards higher if we didn't have compulsory licences? I doubt it.

As more and more people get boats of all sorts in my opinion it is almost inevitable that we will have to introduce some form of test before they are allowed to put their own and others lives at risk.
 
Re: ICC - validity & who qualifies?

ICC can only be issued to British nationals or those who are normally resident in the UK.
However, as far as I'm aware, they qualify the skipper and this is irrespective of what flag the yacht is that he/she is on.
 
after the mess arising from standardisation of m.n. certs (stcw95), and its attendant huge rise in businesses involving forgeries, psuedo training in dubious colleges etc ............ compulsory yotti/stinki certs will actually improve nothing, just cos more ppl have a piece of paper to enable themselves to do the same stuff, it will just increase the number of incompetent mariners holding a qualification.

it is recognised the stcw95 initiative is a failure by not reaching the target of having properly qualified (EDUCATED)mariners to a certain basic level ........ we have qualified mariners now at such crap levels it devalues those with equal status qualifications obtained by accredited traditional countries.

IMO of course /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: ICC - validity & who qualifies?

Quote: "ICC can only be issued to British nationals or those who are normally resident in the UK"

Just to clarify any possible misunderstanding of the ICC. This is an international qualification not just UK based. The governing Authority for the ICC is the United Nations as it was set up under UN Resolution 40. It is up to individual governments to implement this, if they so wish. In the UK the government have delegated this to the RYA to administer the certificate on their behalf.

The ICC can be issued to anyone of any nationality but only by their government or its designated agency.
 
MN ... and I never could understand this one ...

The combined Ticket .... I was a Deckie ... out and out Deckie..

Engineers were Engineers .... Full stop.

Then some bright spark said - Wey Hey ... Why don't we have a Combined Ticket of Engineer and Deckie ??

Now I have been on many ships where such people have been on deck-cargo watch ... Sorry - but I have not been impressed - in fact I was extremely cautious of some of the errors made.

As a Cadet, 3rd Mate, 2nd Mate - I KNEW where sounding points were on the vessel - cargo and services. I did not need the Pumpman to show me. As Mate I could still do all the things I used to do ... and as I rose up - I still prided myself that I still be Deck-wise.

The number of vessels my inspectors go on that they have to wait for a pumpman to sort out soundings - because the Deck Officer hasn't a clue is nothing short of dismal.

Sorry onto Yacht things ... what ever happens yes Licences will happen ... I hope not too soon , but I think they will. Then I'll have to think hard about my own circumstances ... but I'll most likely moan and then get on with it ...
 
Re: MN ... and I never could understand this one ...

Hi Nigel

I wasnt touching on the joint ticket scenario .......... I have met a couple of duel hatted ppl, victims of an experiment that has ceased as far as I know ...... so say no more huh.

I was raising the problem with stcw95 (not mentioning certs of equivilance or white and black lists - did you know nigeria is now on the white list ffs)

its a total shambles and makes a mockery of the ISM code.

same would happen with yotti certs - mark my words

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Remember New Zealand and STCW mark one?

The Kiwis refused to sign up, saying, absolutely correctly, that it devalued their tickets.

Then it was pointed out to them that no Kiwis would have a job at sea unless they signed...

But fake tickets were around long before STCW.

You buy a fake national ticket but whatever you do DON'T SAIL ON IT!

You use it to obtain a perfectly genuine equivalent ticket.

You sail on that one.

Now you have a real ticket and nobody is any the wiser. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Fakes ....

The old way was to get hold of a Panamanian ticket ... about $500 - $2000 depending on where you bought it ... (now this wasn't actually fake - it just wasn't based on Examination ...)

You then used it to apply for equivalent Liberian Ticket. This again was real.

Once you had the Liberian and had got a bit of seatime under the belt - maybe learnt something !! You then applied for Bahamas Ticket ... issued in guess where ? LONDON.

I believe that this method is no longer possible .....

Of course there were the days when you could sail on a Panama flag ... get promoted on board, irrespective of ticket level - stay in that position for x months and then automatically qualify for a Licence to be issued for that level.
OR sailo on a Panama ship with your Brit licence ... qualify for next grade up .... then start the process of working through the tricks to gain Bahamas Master ....

Oh Dear ... should I have let this lot out into public airing ????
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top