Compulsary Cert of Competence

[Sailfree]

The posting "if" started my 2 brain cells talking to each other.

Most of us post that we are happy with the status quo of voluntary RYA courses but how many of us would be affected if it became compulsary?

Presumably every skipper has the RYA cert for VHF radio so are fully aware of the RYA courses and presumable every skipper that goes across the channel or N Sea has done a day skipper course to get the Int. Cert of Comp (ICC).

So how many would actually be affected or is the outcry merely one of objecting to be told to do the course?

Are there any out there that with the possible anonymity of the Forum will admit to sailing without a VHF cert or X channel without the ICC?

 

[BrendanS]

I've got RYA quals, so not worried

Slightly more worried that people think they need an ICC to go to France. You don't

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Got the VHF DSC cert.... and Yachtmaster Theory.... but no ICC, or anything else.....

Don't need an ICC to cross the channel.....

 

[Sailfree]

Sorry my mistake I thought you did need an ICC for France. Where is it compulsary?

Thanks

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Only in most European Inland Waterways where you really need a CEVNI.

Poland, require an ICC .... plus much of the Med... Greece, Croatia etc.... not needed in Spain, but many Spanish harbour masters don't agree /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Sabrat]

I think a compulsion would be a very negative thing from my point of view, I will get attackrdfrom some quarters if I give my primary reasons, so I'll keep those opinions to myself until (the very intelligent people who must allways know what's good for me) ask me for them.

It seems to me that the question is not 'how many here would be affected' but how many here would have been affected in the past if such a policy had been in place years ago?

How many people who now have their third boat and several certificates would have had to delay their entry into coastal sailing in the past if they had had to pay twice the value of a little old boat to get a certificate to sail her?

I believe that there has to be a level of freedom and responsibility somewhere, if person wants to take a boat to sea then I will judge him by what I know of him as a person and his need to learn for himself, not on what papers he can show me.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Sabrat,

Broadly agree with you..... sadly the nanny state doesn't share your common sense view....

 

[duncan]

whilst I have ICC for sail and power,an SRC certificate and vessel has the correct station licence for the VHF, HH and radar - it might be possible that the current VHF installation isn't covered by my user certificate........however as I wouldn't dream of using the said unit except under instruction or in a distress situation thats OK!

 

[graham]

Re: Ticket factories

I believe that compulsory certification could lower standards.

If for example all skippers were required to have dayskipper a huge volume of work for sailing schools would cause schools to pop up everywhere churning hundreds of candidates through a minimal course geared only to bums on seat numbers and high pass rates.

Some students would have resentfull attitudes that would detract from the learning process for those genuinely wanting to learn.

How many would then voluntarilly fork out more money and time to obtain YM offshore?

 

[Lakesailor]

Re: Ticket factories

I'm always against compulsory anything. A few exceptions like motor insurance do make sense.
The last course I did and exams I took were , ooh, a lot of years ago. It was for a Miller Certificate which was the ambulance workers qualification before Paramedic qualifications became all the rage.
After a residential course when I came to know the other students I passed with a very good score (99% I believe).
Some of the other guys on the course who had doctorates in getting pissed but had trouble tying their shoelaces also managed to scrape a pass.

Lying in a car crash wreckage, if one of them had turned up as the Ambulanceman, I would have crawled away. It would have been safer.

Qualifications. Pah

 

[Neil_M]

I have a DSC VHF certificate but despite sailing since I was 10 and teaching many others, no ICC or RYA qualification. Have sailed to France, Belgium & Holland several times and despite having all (other) papers dutifully in order have yet to be asked for anything but Euros overseas. Having said that I'm going for my YM currently, part as a refresher & partly to be fully above board for any future trips

ICC isn't technically required in most European countries (including Dutch inland if you're under 15m & 20kph) if you are British registered, as already pointed out, though I'm aware that others have been fined for failing to produce one & I don't want to run the risk much longer.

 

[claymore]

It is my belief that if there had been some form of driving test introduced on Lake Windermere, back in the 70's as the water-based leisure industry grew, the incidents which led in part to the 10mph limit might have been avoided and so perhaps might the ban itself.
I'm not really an advocate of compulsory certification - but I think with the Windermere case a careful combination of legislation and education might have produced a happier outcome for powerboaters and local businesses.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Neil,

That pretty much refelects my position too... havinf sailed all my life.... I am thinking of taking YM before too long in order to avoid future problems if (and probably when) qualifications become compulsory...

 

[steverow]

I dont have a C of C/SRC.

I refuse to do it, already being a qualified Radio engineer and a radio amateur for 20 odd years.
I really dont want to waste a day of my life, going on a course where I am most likely going to know a good deal more than the instructor, mixing with morons who dont know which way round to hold the microphone, and having to pay heavily for the priveledge as well.
The SRC is a joke.
I have RYA Yachtmaster which covers making mayday calls and basic DSC operation at least on my course it did.
I feel very strongly about this and my views on it are widely know on the forums.
There should be a waiver or at the very least a quick online exam for people who are already fully familiar with standard radio operation and procedures.
Ditto for the LRC for radio amateurs.

Steve.

 

[claymore]

As a slight aside - what would the penalty be if someone bought a DSC radio but didn't bother with the test?

 

[Sabrat]

Despite my previous post I too am actually doing an RYA course and I have to say I am quite pleased because although the are a lot of RYA promotions and stuff handouts etc. the people running this course really are good, they really do want to turn out a class that will navigate and are almost apologetic for the commercial aspect of it sometimes.

I too am feeling the noose tightening in the future and if that happens I'll be paying twice as much for half the help.

 

[ex-Gladys]

Re: Compulsory Cert of Competence

...Well, let's take a look at an area where we do have compulsory cert of competence i.e. car driving. Does that stop road accidents and breakdowns through stupidity....


I rest my case

 

[duncan]

nothing

equally installing it on your boat is fine as long as you have a ships radio licence and it's correctly registered as a DSC unit

actually using it whilst not under the supervision of a suitably qualified individual, other than for a distress situation, may lead you liable to a fine however.......... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif...........in exactly the same way as any radio equipement that requires a specific user licence. Given that in use only the station ID is used, not the user's, this would of course be rather difficult to detect/monitor/police/enforce. Gets even funnier when you condsider that the primary use you are no longer permitted to use (calling) is the one you may well already be trained/licenced to use and the 'new' distress application that you haven't been trained/licenced to use is the one you can.

 

[jstr]

Quote
"Only in most European Inland Waterways where you really need a CEVNI.

Poland, require an ICC .... plus much of the Med... Greece, Croatia etc.... not needed in Spain, but many Spanish harbour masters don't agree "


I don't think you need an ICC for Greece - as I asked Sunsail about this and they don't require an ICC for flotillas, but they do ask for qualifications for chartering

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

OK..... open to correction.... wasn't speaking from personal experience... only from guidance from the RYA website...

"For coastal areas in Northern Europe and Scandinavia, the ICC is generally not required. Again, there are exceptions and these include Poland and the Baltic States of Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. It is also useful to have one in Germany. Conversely, in the Mediterranean an ICC is usually required, particularly in Italy, Greece, Croatia and Turkey. ICCs are not required in Spain on British flagged yachts. However, Spanish harbour masters and other officials are used to their own nationals having to be licensed and so can be difficult to persuade that British flagged vessels do not require them. "