Commands for going about.

webcraft said:
A nerve struck? :eek:

- W
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Yes, in respect of that being the second supercilious reply to my stance on the matter in this thread.

My opinion on the use of antique maritime language has no connection to where I sail, these days.

These forumites are trying to use that turn of phrase as a put-down.
It doesn't address the point of the discussion, or reflect very well on them.

I often see these forums as large collection of like-minded people having a laugh and a chat.
Then I get hauled back to reality when I am reminded that some people just don't do pleasant.
 
webcraft said:
IMHO you are in a rather agressive and rude mood this morning. Your comments suggest that perhaps you sail agressively as well.
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Have some ggggggggg's as well! :)

I don't quite see how you make the link between that post and my sailing style, particularly as you appear to agree via the following
I will make one correction to what I said above, which was not put very well. Unless backing the headsail the sheet should be released just before the bow goes through the wind, not after it has gone through, which is what I appear to have inadvertantly said.
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that what you wrote was not what you meant, or in other words was indeed bollox.
'Lee-Oh' - bow is about to go through the wind, release sheets, take in on the other side.
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Still don't get the point. The trimmer has the sheet in his/her hand after "Ready", is watching the sail and should release when the sail starts to luff, a point that is variable with wind strength and rate of turn. As helmsman I am not concentrating on this point which, hopefully, comes quite soon after my "Lee-o" so the crew should be prepared.

I generally find that the excessive winching you refer to comes from letting the sail fly too early rather than too late. A well-executed tack in a small yacht can be done by a practised crew with no need to winch, and with no prolonged flogging of sails or sheets, which novices find alarming and I find irritating. Slowing the manoeuvre down helps them to understand what is happening. (Your overwhelming belief in the absolute rightness of the way you do things would make you a very bad teacher IMO)
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I don't quite see how disagreeing with what appears to be "your overwhelming belief in the absolute rightness of the way you do things" leads you to that conclusion. If I could see any benefit in your method I would happily adopt it but I cannot see what the intermediate step brings - with mine the crew know that the helm is down and the sequence of tacking has started and like a well oiled machine each plays his/her part (more often than not!)
If you find it necessary to let the headsail fly as soon as you put the helm over then perhaps you are stuffing the bows through the wind too quickly. Try taking your time - you will usually keep more way on the boat and the crew on the genoa sheets will thank you.
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Never have I said that the headsail should be let fly on "Lee-o". CO32s don't spin on a sixpence and the headsail needs to be held until it luffs but no longer. With the CO32 No1 genoa there is a moment of opportunity as the clew clears the forward now leeward shroud when the sail can be rattled in by hand and only needs a small amount of trimming until speed is regained. If the old sheet is released too late the sail streams beyond this point and then it is indeed a bu__er (use 2 of the g's from above) to wind in.

In light airs or difficult sea conditions I often allow the headsail to back for a second to help the bows through. No doubt that is utter bollux :rolleyes:
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Is this achieved by delaying the "Lee-o" call? I manage the same effect by simply asking the crew to let the sail back until we are through the wind.

It is perhaps worth remembering as well that not everyone sails a Co32 :)
- W
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That's why I am open to the idea that the 3-stage call may be of benefit on a bigger boat when there are more than 5/6 crew but I haven't yet been on a boat where it's been used.

Incidently, I was sailing this afternoon until the hail storm came and every tack (except 1 when the old sheet got caught on the inner forestay highfield lever) was carried out perfectly and without any orders at all ................. but then I was single-handed.
 
I think we need a poll,

Lee ho - helm to lee

or

Lee ho - Let go and haul

I have to admit that having been in sail teaching for 30years, I've never heard the term 'let go and haul' before this amazingly long thread.
 
awol said:
I haven't yet been on a boat where it's been used.
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I made it quite clear that was talking about a teaching situation. Several other people with teaching experience have said that they use the same system. It works - people who want to learn to sail understand what is happening and perform the appropriate actions at the appropriate moments.

The response to this thread has been incredibly anal even by YBW standards. Let's have a 30-page thread about locking turns on cleats next :rolleyes:

- W
 
Now you're talking.

I use them at every opportunity. But there again I only sail on a lake, so I am not a big rufty-tufty man.

(I thought I'd point that out to save anyone else the bother)
 
http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-205484.html

According to Ton Cunliffe

lockingturns.jpg
 
I've been told off many times for using locking turns by people who have learnt by rote rather than experience or thinking it through. Cunliffe's above should have the last word on the matter.
 
This is not meant to be provocative, just a search for information from the sailing magisters amongst you.

What do you actually teach your Competent Crew hopefuls to do with ropes and cleats- both the cleating and making up the free rope? And is there any RYA "approved" guidance on what is taught?

I am firmly of the OXO persuasion for running rigging and have had to discourage CCs (and others) from locking turns, excessive knitting, coiling towards the fixed part washing line fashion, etc.
 
jimi said:
I've been told off many times for using locking turns by people who have learnt by rote rather than experience or thinking it through. Cunliffe's above should have the last word on the matter.
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I agree with TC too.

I do get irritated by people who use them 100% of the time, especially on 3-ply twisted mooring lines when all I want is a quick turn on a cleat to hold the boat fast temporarily until all other lines are on, at the right length, springs set properly etc.
 
I can beat that. Tom Cunliffe once told me off - personally, to my face, in company.

It was only his abnormal height that stopped him getting a good hiding

Harrumph.
 
Just one final thought on this, the Poll has closed and the results are:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312759

Plus one person who believed the correct answer is missing.
Do not tell me "Lee Ho" has more than two uses in sailing, there is enough room confusion as it is :(

With the poll results being:
Lee Hoo: Helm down starting the tack. 54 Votes 67.50%
Lee Hoo: Let go and haul 26 Votes 32.50%

It seems that Helm Order is believed to be the most commonly used term.
 
onesea said:
Just one final thought on this, the Poll has closed and the results are:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312759

Plus one person who believed the correct answer is missing.
Do not tell me "Lee Ho" has more than two uses in sailing, there is enough room confusion as it is :(

With the poll results being:
Lee Hoo: Helm down starting the tack. 54 Votes 67.50%
Lee Hoo: Let go and haul 26 Votes 32.50%

It seems that Helm Order is believed to be the most commonly used term.
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On a statistically insignificant, self-selective poll.

The second is what the RYA teach.
 
Given the last 2 comments maybe the RYA should come up with guidance on this matter for thier instructors..

I would not say the different usage of the same word in this manner is insignificant...
 
onesea said:
Given the last 2 comments maybe the RYA should come up with guidance on this matter for thier instructors...
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They do.

In the Dazed Kipper practicle handbook they use "helm a lee" when the turn is initiated.

onesea said:
I would not say the different usage of the same word in this manner is insignificant...
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I would...



________________
 
st599 said:
On a statistically insignificant, self-selective poll.

The second is what the RYA teach.
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I agree with the second, and I have huge respect for the RYA syllabus and how it captures a practical method for teaching and further development as experience grows

In a simplified 'command set' suitable for dinghies, smaller more nimble yachts and possibly others where the crew are a slick team, 'ready about' as notice of intention followed by 'lee oh' as notice of action is sufficient. In these examples, 'helms a lee' could be substituted with 'lee-oh', The action having been briefed not assumed.

In a more powerful and possibly more complex yacht with larger crew then I, and many others posting here would use 'helms a lee' followed by 'lee oh'. Again, the associated actions having been briefed not assumed.

The poll did not allow for this option.
 
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lotusman said:
In a simplified 'command set' suitable for dinghies, smaller more nimble yachts and possibly others where the crew are a slick team, 'ready about' as notice of intention followed by 'lee oh' as notice of action is sufficient. In these examples, 'helms a lee' could be substituted with 'lee-oh', The action having been briefed not assumed.

In a more powerful and possibly more complex yacht with larger crew then I, and many others posting here would use 'helms a lee' followed by 'lee oh'. Again, the associated actions having been briefed not assumed.

The poll did not allow for this option.
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Exactly - very well put.......
 
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