GHA
Well-Known Member
+100
The Col regs cover everything. Advising otherwise is dangerously irresponsible.
Colregs don't apply to the elite?
- Thread starter skyflyer
- Start date
+100
The Col regs cover everything. Advising otherwise is dangerously irresponsible.
Serin
Well-Known Member
A a spot of Buddhist meditation may be in order for OP if meeting another boat in the middle of Start Bay causes so much stress. And bear in mind that on port tack (as described) the windward boat naturally feels he has RoWlistening_headphone) which he would have if both were motoring.
If both are motoring, then, surely, the powerboat rules apply to both. So windward/leeward isn't really relevant. The applicable rules would be overtaking or crossing - in which case the boat with the other on its starboard side would be the give way vessel.
That, of course, is what the much maligned cone is for. It signals whether you intend to behave as a power driven or a sail driven vessel.
FWB
N/A
Except when Bye Laws say differently. In Falmouth boats which are racing have right of way over those which are not...Bye Law 13.
Serin
Well-Known Member
Indeed - the regulations only apply when the danger of a collision exists, so you can just stay well clear of any close quarters situation. Difficult to do in some crowded or restricted waters - and that's when it's important to do what is expected of you. I can't agree with your assumption, though. In my experience most people do follow the regulations, including drivers of ships and other working vessels.
stranded
Well-Known Member
Oh I'm usually wrong - most people are decent and reasonably competent, but as strategy it keeps you out of the way of the few that aren't, at no cost.
jac
Well-Known Member
This attitude is one that really worries me.
Please indicate where in IRPCS it says words to the effect of Ferries have right of way over yachts.
When I last looked at them they didn't. Unless the yacht is overtaking or the ferry is RAM, NUC or CBD ( or fishing) then the yacht is stand-on vessel. AT some stage you need to know when you should take avoiding action but until that time your responsibility is to stand on so that everyone knows what to do.
Local regulations may override IRPCS and common sense should also be used but the rules are there for a reason. Stand on until it looks as if the Give way vessel isn't following the rules then take clear and decisive action.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
It's not that long ago that the RYS announced that they would be sending out a fleet of ribs to keep other boats away from racers. That notion was, as I recall, swiftly squashed by the authorities, but the suggestion does suggest a mindset ...
pmagowan
Well-Known Member
It worries me that despite colregs coming up on here quite often there is still a significant proportion of forumites who think that they can make up their own rules and that this is OK. Colregs are an obligation not a guideline. This is what gives yachties a bad name and gets us labeled as WAFIs. Certainly there are some subtle situations where you might need to think a bit about who is stand on etc but, in general they are clear and concise. Obviously, you need to check local rules also and these are often labeled on the chart if it is up to date.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I know what you mean, and in general I agree, but there are at least two ways in which application of the rules can be complicated. First, there are lots of undefined terms along the lines of "in good time" in the rules, and these terms can reasonably mean very different things to different people. 4kt Centaur vs 4kt Centaur? Fine. 20kt ferry vs 20kt ferry? Fine. 4kt Centaur vs 20kt ferry? More difficult.
Second, the IRPCS work well for two vessels (modulo the above) meeting in unobstructed waters. They don't work nearly as well when vessels are hampered, either by natural features or by the presence of other vessels. It is possible and not uncommon, for example, for A to be stand-on to B (and therefore obliged to maintain course and speed) while also being give-way to C (and therefore obliged to alter course and/or speed).
Sticking to the rules as far as possible is the thing to do, but they need intelligent interpretation.
ronsurf
Well-Known Member
Only in the UK is the owner of a 45' yacht regarded as 'the elite'! Just got back from the Med and the average yacht size was about 45'.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
I would tend to agree with you, but in the case of Greek ferries, even tiny ones, they simply do not obey Colregs which has suprised and startled me more than once. When a small manouvable ferry comes up behind you with a mile of water on either side, hooting and hooting away without changing course until you do, then you learn that they believe that working vessels have precedence over leisure ones. And it happens again and again. First country I have come across where this happens all the time.
dom
Well-Known Member
In my view people do sort of make up their own rules and rightly so. Take the entrance to Poole Harbour as an example. The cross Channel ferry enters the Poole bouyage just after it passes the popular and very busy Studland Bay anchorage. Take a look here; Poole is just west of the IoW for those unfamiliar with the area.
http://webapp.navionics.com/#@10&key=c`ctHt}lJ
A boat entering Studland Bay from the east is perfectly entitled to force the ferry to give way as it is not yet constrained in any way. Yet almost no boats from Poole or the Solent would never ever enforce that right. Now imagine some Captain Mainwaring type does force the ferry to turn -- the turning ferry immediately creates a dangerous dynamic multi-boat situation which the IRPCS simply cannot deal with. To mitigate this risk the ferry sensibly slows right down when there are boats around; and 99.9% of the "little" boats respect this and keep out of his way. Is this kind of sensible Heath Robinson harmony not preferable to forcing the IRPCS into areas they were never intended to reach?
Serin
Well-Known Member
That's why there is no "right of way" and no absolute relief for any vessel from the responsibility to avoid a collision.
Serin
Well-Known Member
Of course, what they believe and what is written in the regulations are two very different things. Another class of seafarer of which I am very wary when it comes to the regulations is the Breton fisherman..............
laika
Well-Known Member
If you assume that everyone is likely to do the thing you least want them to you will never go out in a sailing boat (or on a bicycle): If you make a small early adjustment the thing you'll least want them to do is make a small adjustment at the same time bringing you back on a collision course. So you make another adjustment and the thing you least want them to do is to make the opposite adjustment at the same time. And so on until you collide.
The colregs are there to prevent that. [EDIT] Although obviously nothing wrong with a very early adjustment before a "risk of collision" really exists...
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RupertW
Well-Known Member
Of course, what they believe and what is written in the regulations are two very different things. Another class of seafarer of which I am very wary when it comes to the regulations is the Breton fisherman..............
Yes - I was thinking that when I wrote it - the last time I had to get used to being alarmed was when sailing each year in South Brittany. I kind of get it when they are trawling although the unexpected turns don't help but when they are racing for harbour pre-dawn then the only option is to run away.
chrishelen
N/A
Good answer... But we were talking about Greek ferries which are a law unto themselves.
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stranded
Well-Known Member
That is my.point, obviousky poorly expressed. Yet the colregs seem to say that a risk of collision exists as soon as boatsbthat are in sight of each other on a steadyish bearing if distance is reducing. Which is why they must be applied with common sense.
pmagowan
Well-Known Member
That is fine, they can ignore them, you should not. The colregs require you to stand on in certain situations but they also require you to make such efforts as are required to avoid a collision even if you are the stand on vessel. So, in the case of your ferries, assuming no local bylaws, you stand on until such time as you are aware that they are not taking appropriate action and then you take clear and obvious action to avoid a collision. If you ignore colregs that will be the one time the ferry chooses to obey them and you could end up in the classic corridor situation where people both step the same way until they collide.
chrishelen
N/A
Hmmmm sounds good on paper, but in Greek waters, on known ferry routes best to take avoiding action sooner rather than later to avoid any confusion, have you sailed in Greek waters, out of interest?