Colregs don't apply to the elite?

chrishelen said:
Hmmmm sounds good on paper, but in Greek waters, on known ferry routes best to take avoiding action sooner rather than later to avoid any confusion, have you sailed in Greek waters, out of interest?
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And that's what I've learnt - I can't stand the hassle of worrying any guests on board and the rude gesturing from British ferry passengers at the silly yachtie getting in the way of an overtaking boat. I turn at right angles very early and keep going that way until I'm sure I'm clear of the path.
 
chrishelen said:
Hmmmm sounds good on paper, but in Greek waters, on known ferry routes best to take avoiding action sooner rather than later to avoid any confusion, have you sailed in Greek waters, out of interest?
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Yes, I have sailed in Greece not that this makes any difference. You can take your avoiding action just as soon as you deem that it is neccessary to do so either because he is not taking appropriate action or that it would require the combined action of both vessels to avoid collision. The point is that you must give him the chance to take appropriate action by standing on. The colregs do NOT require you to stand on until you are in an uncomfortably close situation where the risk of collision is higher. Of course, as others have said, you can preempt a ROC situation and avoid it happening.

I do this with AIS occasionally with large ferries that I can see when they are departing and work out they will end up in my vicinity and so choose not to be there. We never enter a situation where there is a ROC and they never even get to know I exist. I cross behind them once they have gone.
 
Normal Greek ferries are scary enough but then comes along a Hydrofoil.... Regulations may be regulations, me altering my course as fast as possible prevents near death experience panic attack :encouragement:
 
foeu said:
Except when Bye Laws say differently. In Falmouth boats which are racing have right of way over those which are not...Bye Law 13.
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Amazing, I had absolutely no idea that COLREGS could be negated by Bye Laws. Are there many places in the UK where this is the case?
 
richgiddens said:
Amazing, I had absolutely no idea that COLREGS could be negated by Bye Laws. Are there many places in the UK where this is the case?
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They are not. COLREGS apply even in Falmouth. That bye law requires small boats not to impede processions and regattas which is not the same thing.
It speaks volumes to see that racers think that gives them the right to ignore the COLREGS.
 
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chrishelen said:
Don't ferries have right of way?
In my day job as a charter skipper I find it much safer and less stressful to just assume the stance of give way vessel, and just return the cheery waves...other commercial vessels.. Normal rules apply.
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A sensible and less stressful approach to commercial vessels. Make an early and obvious alteration of course just as you would (or should) if you are the give way vessel.
Note overtaking vessels keep clear and that includes sail overtaking power.
 
Falmouth Harbour Bye Law 13
.
Small vessels to avoid regattas, etc.
13. The master of a small vessel on the occasion of any boat race, regatta, championship race, public procession or any other occasion when a number of small vessels are assembled therein shall not permit his small vessel to pass therein so as to obstruct, impede or interfere with the boat race, regatta, championship race or procession, or endanger the safety of persons assembling in the harbour, or prevent the maintenance of order therein, and the master of a small vessel shall observe the directions of the Harbour Master or other persons authorised by the Commissioners to superintend the execution of this bye-law
 
It is obvious that there are simply a bunch of people that will not obey colregs no matter how clearly their obligations are explained to them. As this thread clearly demonstrates many people are simply happy to make up their own rules and to hell with anyone else that has to make heads or tails of it. Colregs are clear and straight forward in what your responsibilities are and have built in a rule that allows you to take any action that is neccessary to avoid a collision given the situation. I wonder what number of WAFI's it takes before they bring in regulations such as licensing.
 
pmagowan said:
It is obvious that there are simply a bunch of people that will not obey colregs no matter how clearly their obligations are explained to them. As this thread clearly demonstrates many people are simply happy to make up their own rules and to hell with anyone else that has to make heads or tails of it. Colregs are clear and straight forward in what your responsibilities are and have built in a rule that allows you to take any action that is neccessary to avoid a collision given the situation. I wonder what number of WAFI's it takes before they bring in regulations such as licensing.
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Good lord - Captain Mainwarings with their obsession with rules versus safe experienced sailors who can make different judgements in different circumstances to keep themselves and others safe.
 
Ok to answer a few points raised about my original post:

I was close hauled so turning to port to pass astern was not an option (apart from what I eventually did which effectively stopped me dead in the water) I could have tacked which would have meant heading back where I'd started from - is that a reasonable and fair early course of action for the stand on vessel?

I accept that people get confused and make mistakes. I have done so myself, often and thus am always ready to take avoiding action if necessary. But Colregs are quite specific that the stand on vessel should stand on until it is obvious that the other vessel is not giving way

The size of the boat is irrelevant, agreed: its value is not! Rightly or wrongly I sort of accept the fact that someone spending £350 on a boat probably has never been informed of the existence of Colregs and just wants to have fun on the water. But if you are shelling out £200,000 then I think the moral onus is on the seller or hirer to try their damnedest to ensure the new owner has suitable skills and knowledge to use that boat safely

I'm not advocating licences but by way of example you cannot buy a Stihl chainsaw from a Stihl dealer unless you have done a chainsaw course

Whilst the port/starboard thing is quite confusing at times, sail before steam isn't

Finally I deliberately avoided (I hope) name and shame by redacting (!) enough detail that the boat is only identifiable to the owner or close neighbours and friends who can perhaps alert the owner who -fair enough- may be oblivious to what happened and mortified

This is not a rant about where the money came from or rich vs poor. The guy can be a banker, lottery winner or even an estate agent for all I care. But if you can spend £200k on a boat big enough to do serious damage if it collided with someone else you owe it to your passengers and other water users to undergo some basic training, surely?
 
AuntyRinum said:
They are not. COLREGS apply even in Falmouth. That bye law requires small boats not to impede processions and regattas which is not the same thing.
It speaks volumes to see that racers think that gives them the right to ignore the COLREGS.
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(b) Nothing in these Rules shall interfere with the operation of special rules made by an appropriate authority for roadsteads, harbours, rivers, lakes, or inland waterways connected with the high seas and navigable by seagoing vessels. Such special rules shall conform as closely as possible to these Rules. (c) Nothing in these Rules shall interfere with the operation of any special rule made by the government of any State with respect to additional station or signal lights, shapes or whistle signals for ships of war and vessels proceeding under convoy, or with respect to additional station or signal lights or shapes for fishing vessels engaged in fishing as a fleet. These additional station or signal lights, shapes or whistle signals shall, so far as possible, be such that they cannot be mistaken for any light, shape, or signal authorised elsewhere under these Rules
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jac said:
This attitude is one that really worries me.
Unless the yacht is overtaking or the ferry is RAM, NUC or CBD ( or fishing) then the yacht is stand-on vessel. AT some stage you need to know when you should take avoiding action but until that time your responsibility is to stand on so that everyone knows what to do.

Local regulations may override IRPCS and common sense should also be used but the rules are there for a reason. Stand on until it looks as if the Give way vessel isn't following the rules then take clear and decisive action.
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On any busy sailing day around Portsmouth approaches sailing yachts can be observed getting in the way of Wight Link ferries as they either turning into or proceeding along the Swashway. (a narrow and shallow channel for larger vessels) It is clear that these ferries are constrained by draught. (CBD)
Any knowledgable and sensible yacht skipper would plan to avoid ferry routes.
To "over interpret' the rules just shows the arrogance that causes many professionals have low opinions of many leisure boaters.
I have covered approaching 20.000 miles in the Solent alone and can confirm many yachtsmen don't know the rules or interpret them poorly.
 
richgiddens said:
Amazing, I had absolutely no idea that COLREGS could be negated by Bye Laws. Are there many places in the UK where this is the case?
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1. Application
(a) These rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels.
(b) Nothing in these Rules shall interfere with the operation of special rules made by an appropriate authority for roadsteads, harbours, rivers, lakes, or inland waterways connected with the high seas and navigable by seagoing vessels. Such special rules shall conform as closely as possible to these Rules.
 
southseaian said:
1. Application
(a) These rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels.
(b) Nothing in these Rules shall interfere with the operation of special rules made by an appropriate authority for roadsteads, harbours, rivers, lakes, or inland waterways connected with the high seas and navigable by seagoing vessels. Such special rules shall conform as closely as possible to these Rules.
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So don't impede racing boats in Falmouth or you could in theory be up before the Beak....it might be his racing boat you obstructed :)
Also, the Working Boats "don't do starboard"
 
southseaian said:
On any busy sailing day around Portsmouth approaches sailing yachts can be observed getting in the way of Wight Link ferries as they either turning into or proceeding along the Swashway. (a narrow and shallow channel for larger vessels) It is clear that these ferries are constrained by draught. (CBD)
Any knowledgable and sensible yacht skipper would plan to avoid ferry routes.
To "over interpret' the rules just shows the arrogance that causes many professionals have low opinions of many leisure boaters.
I have covered approaching 20.000 miles in the Solent alone and can confirm many yachtsmen don't know the rules or interpret them poorly.
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Good post +1
 
foeu said:
So don't impede racing boats in Falmouth or you could in theory be up before the Beak....it might be his racing boat you obstructed :)
Also, the Working Boats "don't do starboard"
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Hi Foeu, can you explain, 'working boats don't do starboard'. cheers Jerry
 
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