Colregs clarification...

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Out on my brother's boat in the Solent today we got shouted at and had some choice language shouted across from another yacht after he had taken action to avoid hitting us (in time, no drama ensued!). None of on board could work out why he was gesticulating and shouting out what sounded like 'flossers' or something like that.

We were both on starboard tack. We were close hauled, he was on a beam reach coming across from our starboard side. He was to windward. We could not really turn to starboard or we would have been too close to the wind. Had we turned to port it wouldn't really have got us out of his way. All he appeared to need to do was to bear away for a few seconds to come round behind us. He did this but clearly wasn't very happy.

From the above does it sound like we did something wrong?

Thanks
Graham
 
"From the above does it sound like we did something wrong?"

go sailing in the solent ?

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I have to say a thread with "solent" and "colregs" usually tends to flush out a few views /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
I'll stick my neck out....

Assuming you had been on that course for some time, i.e. you hadn't just tacked, and both boats are sailing, not motor sailing, then I see him as either windward boat, or overtaking boat, and the keep clear boat.

Only way I see him as the stand on vessel is if you were considerably faster, then you could concievably have approached from the stern sector.
Maybe this was what he was shouting about?
 
OK time for a proper response, other than Flaming's suggestion the only other issue could be if you were in the shallows and he was constrained by draught and had called for water ? Unlikely though, sounds like you came across an important local who was racing....
 
[ QUOTE ]


From the above does it sound like we did something wrong?



[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds as though he was very important. I would have thought you would have realised that in time.
 
From what you say it would appear that rule 12 (a) (ii) should have applied
[ QUOTE ]
Rule 12
Sailing Vessels
(a) When two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of
them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows:
(i) when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side
shall keep out of the way of the other;
(ii) when both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep
out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward;
(iii) if a vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel to windward and cannot determine
with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on the port or on the starboard side,
she shall keep out of the way of the other.
(b) For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite to that
on which the mainsail is carried or, in the case of a square-rigged vessel, the side opposite to that
on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried.

[/ QUOTE ]

However if you were closing from more than 22.5 degrees abaft the beam of the other vessel (ie from a point at which the stern light would have been visible at night) then rule 13 would have applied. [ QUOTE ]
Rule 13
Overtaking
(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II, any vessel
overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.
(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with another vessel from a direction
more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she
is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the stern light of that vessel but neither
of her sidelights.
(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another, she shall assume that this
is the case and act accordingly.
(d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking
vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping
clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the skipper of the other yacht was really a powerboat driver. In the case of two power boats then the vessel to starboard of the other would be the stand-on vessel. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Wow... thanks for all those. It sounds like he may have just been having a bad day then! We had been on our course for 20 minutes or so, he was not racing, we were approaching each other at somewhere around 90 degrees and both on the same tack. He was the windward boat. When somebody feels the need to start shouting at you it does make you wonder whether you have misunderstood things!

Thanks all...

Graham
 
If you thoroughly learn the ColRegs you won't have any doubts next time you encounter someone like that. For a start you'll know you haven't wronged someone else and if they start shouting you'll be able to put them in their place immediately.

Learning the ColRegs well doesn't take that long, a few evenings when there's rubbish on the TV. Learning when you maybe should depart from them (such as if the windward boat had been shallow water) and what is a good way to go about doing that takes a bit longer, but that's all part of gaining experience.
 
Be assured you have and had the moral high ground any shouting therefor on the part of the other boat simply reduces their standing as sailors and humans. Relax and laugh at him. As said this is easier if you are sure of your rights. enjoy sailing olewill
 
Could be that in his view you were to windward - not always that easy to judge in the situation you describe. Certainly if he was beam reaching rather than running it would be debateable. Either way, it was easier for him to bear away than for you to tack so politeness alone wouls suggest he did that.
 
It is is usual for yachts not to wear an ensign when racing, but fly another flag, often a number pennant, in its place.

Whilst this gives absolutely no rights over other yachts, it can alert you to those who may have different priorities than you.

John
 
[ QUOTE ]
None of on board could work out why he was gesticulating and shouting out what sounded like 'flossers' or something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rest happy in the belief that he was berating his own crew for their failure to spot you earlier and himself, as skipper, for failing to ensure that a proper lookout was kept.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
None of on board could work out why he was gesticulating and shouting out what sounded like 'flossers' or something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rest happy in the belief that he was berating his own crew for their failure to spot you earlier and himself, as skipper, for failing to ensure that a proper lookout was kept.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, and the lottery fairy will be around in the morning to give you a ton of dosh! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
He could have been confused if he were just trying to take the wind direction account but as Rule 13 states -

(b) For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite to that
on which the mainsail is carried or, in the case of a square-rigged vessel, the side opposite to that
on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried.

Therefore it should have been clear by looking at which side GRP's main was on. If he was not clear on that he should not have tried to enforce what he thought was his right.

GRP has my sympathy it can be intimidating.
 
I'll stick my neck out - this is not a colregs issue.

He didn't see you until the last moment, got scared and panicked, altered course and shouted at you for appearing from nowhere.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Could be that in his view you were to windward - not always that easy to judge in the situation you describe. Certainly if he was beam reaching rather than running it would be debateable. Either way, it was easier for him to bear away than for you to tack so politeness alone wouls suggest he did that.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's quite implausible. For a close quarters situation to be developing between 2 boats, both on Starboard and one hard on the wind the second boat on anything from a close reach to a broad reach would have to be the windward boat. Draw a diagram if it helps. If it wasn't it would either be overtaking or there would be no/negligible risk of collision. Either way the only flosser was the skipper of the windward/overtaking boat.
 
Was he shouting in English or Italian ?
May have been a confused visitor to our shores.
Where I sail local colregs say that all boats have to give give way to Italian. I have had adopt the approach that I am always the giveway vessel !
I dont think you were the flosser !
 
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