Collision in Solent this afternoon - Incoming Tanker / Yacht

[islandsailor]

Typical Daily Mail....page header

"Yacht ploughs into bulky tanker"

Looks to me as if it was the tanker doing the ploughing....and the yacht was doing the rabbit in the headlights bit.

The MAIB report will make interesting reading

Think you have that wrong Snooks - for the first time in my life I have to say the Daily Mail weren't wrong - I about 3 cables away (admittedly with a bit on!) but the yacht was going at full pelt until about 30 sec's before the collision when they suddenly tried to spill the wind from their sails, this despite the escort boat going over to them - and the ship repeatedly using it's horn.

The tug attached to the back of the Tanker was going full pelt trying to slow her down.

IMHO - only one outcome from the MAIB enquiry

 

[RivalRedwing]

Would imagine the MAIB report will be quite short.... the yacht skipper should be certified (and mightily fined.....although that is probably not the remit of the MAIB)

 

[Lady Campanula]

Some people seem to take Peyton too literally...

​

 

[Searush]

Hmm, having seen it there are a few interesting issues raised. I don't use spinnakers as I am always shorthanded or family on board & I certainly wouldn't attempt to use one unless in open water because they affect your ability to manouvre so much. So will you more experienced sailors please comment on the following?

Am I right in thinking that he has tried to cut across the bows because turning towards the stern (& don't forget there's a tug on a line too) would required quite a significant turn & the pressure in his spinnaker would probably make that quite tricky? Initially, he may well have had enough speed, but you just cannot rely on the wind can you? The fluttering in the spinny - is that a consequence of trying to get the sail down or a wind shift? TBH while I may not have cut the sheets I would certainly have let the halliard & sheets fly (mine are all stoppered in the cleat so they can't fly up the mast).

Finally, was he on the opposite tack to the boats that came up on the nearside of the tanker later? That might explain a lot. Boats with spinnakers up are not very manouverable are they?

 

[Scareyclott]

If that's where I think it is, slightly east of the prince consort buoy, it's outside the precautionary zone, and the moving prohibited zone does not apply.

So, that leaves power gives way to sail, and means that the tanker was somehow supposed to move itself sideways, upwards, or backwards, despite blowing it's horn to indicate that it could do none of these things.

Does anyone still think that "Power gives way to sail" is the best rule for handling the situation where a large power driven vessel encounters a much smaller and vastly more manouvreable vessel under sail at close quarters?

Surley the ship is a 'vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre' in this area and hasn't got to give way to sail.

Also i would like to know in that close up shot of the yacht crew why were they hiding behind the sail, i would have had my crew (especially the wife) out with the roaming fenders

 

[ricky_s]

Another WAFI......

 

[nimbusgb]

'The skipper should be fined'

By whom? Surely the only sanction would be in a civil case between the two parties? Since we are not required to have a driving licence there's no way to penalise the skipper on that front either.

Perhaps the owners of the tanker will be presenting a bill for the inspection of the bow of the tanker to the skipper. In which case he could be in for quite a bill!

 

[snooks]

'The skipper should be fined'

By whom? Surely the only sanction would be in a civil case between the two parties? Since we are not required to have a driving licence there's no way to penalise the skipper on that front either.

Wasn't it Grant Dalton who was fined for sailing up a TSS off Dover?

The TSS are part of colregs, therefore a fine seems a possibility.

Just a thought....

[edit]Seems it was the MCA who brought the charges against Grant Dalton for ignoring Dover's TSS, in contravention of [/edit]

 

[Giblets]

If that's where I think it is, slightly east of the prince consort buoy, it's outside the precautionary zone, and the moving prohibited zone does not apply.

I'm pretty sure the northerly cardinal shown in the clip is Gurnard in which case the tanker is well within the MPZ.

 

[nimbusgb]

Just wondering who it actually is who comes after you in that situation? I'm assuming it's the MCA but what are their powers?

Must admit my ignorance is showing but if you don't ask you don't get any wiser!

 

[AIDY]

Wasn't it Grant Dalton who was fined for sailing up a TSS off Dover?

The TSS are part of colregs, therefore a fine seems a possibility.

Just a thought....

Correct !

 

[Searush]

Wasn't it Grant Dalton who was fined for sailing up a TSS off Dover?

The TSS are part of colregs, therefore a fine seems a possibility.

Just a thought....

Even if it IS a TSS, the yottie was trying to cross a right angles as required, but he might have been safer sailing against the TSS flow illegally.

BTW Can I have the power to delete your posts too please?

 

[snooks]

Even if it IS a TSS, the yottie was trying to cross a right angles as required, but he might have been safer sailing against the TSS flow illegally.

BTW Can I have the power to delete your posts too please?

I wasn't saying that was a TSS....I was pointing out a case where fines have been handed out for ignoring colregs

Sorry you can't delete posts, if you could you'd take away my enjoyment

 

[savageseadog]

serves the skipper right if the insurance company doesn't pay up. That's negligence.

Negligence is covered, gross negligence isn't

 

[gcoulson]

Even if it IS a TSS, the yottie was trying to cross a right angles as required, but he might have been safer sailing against the TSS flow illegally.

BTW Can I have the power to delete your posts too please?

The N cardinal is off Gurnard so the moving exclusion zone applies. Nothing whatsoever to do with TSS etc. The yacht skipper was totally in the wrong and deserves everything he's got coming to him.

 

[Mrs FG]

I'm pretty sure the northerly cardinal shown in the clip is Gurnard in which case the tanker is well within the MPZ.

The footage is from West Cowes, and the incident was reported as being "off Egypt Point"; the big chimney at Fawley is in the background towards the end of the shot; so I'm fairly sure it's Gurnard.

Moving Prohibited Zones come under Southampton Harbour Byelaws, so the prosecution authority is Southampton Harbour Master.

 

[snooks]

The yacht skipper was totally in the wrong and deserves everything he's got coming to him.

Until we have all the facts, I think that's a bit harsh.

It seems unlikely, but he could have had steering failure. It could have been the helm who was seen falling (or jumping) off the boat. May be there was another boat to leeward and that boat wasn't leaving this chap (or chapess) enough room to clear an obstruction (the tanker).

As I said it's unlikely, but you never know

 

[VicS]

I'm pretty sure the northerly cardinal shown in the clip is Gurnard in which case the tanker is well within the MPZ.

Yep I am absolutely sure you are right.

At 58 seconds , just as the buoy comes into view you can see the Lutterell Tower in transit with the centre of the main buildings of Fawley PS. That makes it Gurnard!

 

[islandsailor]

Until we have all the facts, I think that's a bit harsh.

It seems unlikely, but he could have had steering failure. It could have been the helm who was seen falling (or jumping) off the boat. May be there was another boat to leeward and that boat wasn't leaving this chap (or chapess) enough room to clear an obstruction (the tanker).

As I said it's unlikely, but you never know

As someone who watched the whole incident I will happily put my mortgage on the fact that none of the above were a factor.

The skipper was a idiot - plain and simple - he ignored the escort vessel - and then at the last minute realised he had made a huge mistake and tried to slow down. There were no vessels to leeward of him - we had all seen the very large ship and taken the decision to gybe out of the way!

All of us racing in Cowes are now tarred by his actions.

 

[l'escargot]

Without a doubt it was in the area of concern and a moving exclusion zone was in force - 1000 yards ahead and 100 yards each side.

No one with any sense can reasonably think that the sailing boat was standing on nor was he the stand on boat - people sailing at that level do usually know what they are doing and I doubt very much he thought the LPG carrier was going to avoid him. It appears that the escort boat approached him just before the collision then had to get out the way himself. It will be interesting to actually find out why the collision occurred. Looks to me like a huge error of judgement.