Col regs - who is at fault

[Mariner69]

Looking at the later part of the film you can see that the motor boat (MB) has come from behind the sailing boat (SB) and is overtaking. The interaction between the two hulls comes into play and the bow of the SB is pulled towards the side of the MB. The SB has not kept a proper look out and is accelerating towards the entrance. The interaction acts to speed him up and it is clear that two boats will not make the gap. Better the SB goes dead slow ahead and allows the MB to clear. Both to blame for the incident.

 

[Ariadne]

Both to blame here, nobody seems to be aware of what is happening, and I would add in the lock master for not controlling who leaves and in what order. Not enough film to lay blame but my experience would lead me to let the fishing boat out first as he has the bigger prop effect in a confined space, stayed tied up till it's calm and clear then head on out nice and tidy.

 

[Stork_III]

Both to blame here, nobody seems to be aware of what is happening, and I would add in the lock master for not controlling who leaves and in what order. Not enough film to lay blame but my experience would lead me to let the fishing boat out first as he has the bigger prop effect in a confined space, stayed tied up till it's calm and clear then head on out nice and tidy.

Have you ever been in a Dutch lock with 50-60 other boats, waiting until its calm isn't usually an option, if you are near the front.

 

[Ariadne]

Yes, but the Dutch are far better at handling small boats in confined waterways, lock gates, etc. They are born on boats mun and have fins not hands and feet, they wear hand/foot shaped fin gloves.

On a serious note they do tend to handle the confined waters/lock gate thing better than most Brits, maybe because they use their waterways a lot more so have a lot more experience?

 

[BlondeBimbo]

Was the yacht trying to over take or was the power boat failing to keep clear after over taking the yacht?

The video doesn't start early enough for us to know.

Looked like that to me, later on (3rd replay in the film) the PB is alongside the yacht, yet as it reaches the gate it is ahead - my guess is the PB overtook the yacht - causing the collision - though I would have been shouting somewhat well before it got to that stage, and slammed the yacht astern!

BB

 

[Jamesuk]

Looking at the later part of the film you can see that the motor boat (MB) has come from behind the sailing boat (SB) and is overtaking. The interaction between the two hulls comes into play and the bow of the SB is pulled towards the side of the MB. The SB has not kept a proper look out and is accelerating towards the entrance. The interaction acts to speed him up and it is clear that two boats will not make the gap. Better the SB goes dead slow ahead and allows the MB to clear. Both to blame for the incident.

Like at a round about the NIC moment for the yachtie probably dithered so the fishing boat kept clear and overtook. Or its just the yachtie is incompetent

 

[knuterikt]

Looking at the later part of the film you can see that the motor boat (MB) has come from behind the sailing boat (SB) and is overtaking. The interaction between the two hulls comes into play and the bow of the SB is pulled towards the side of the MB. The SB has not kept a proper look out and is accelerating towards the entrance. The interaction acts to speed him up and it is clear that two boats will not make the gap. Better the SB goes dead slow ahead and allows the MB to clear. Both to blame for the incident.

Hope we newer meet - if this is your understanding of the rules (what about the rest?)

If the MB is overtaking - rule 13 is in effect.
http://www.sailtrain.co.uk/Irpcs/index.htm

Rule 13
Overtaking.

(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.
(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither of her sidelights.

(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another, she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.

(d) Any subsequent alteration of bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.

 

[Mariner69]

I would suggest that you read a little on the subject of interaction between ship's hulls particularily when in confined waters.

So far as the Rules are concerned you are correct that Rule 13 applies, but so too would Rule 2(b) and in particular Rule 5. You could even add in Rule 6 (a) (ii).

But really it is just down to good manners and being aware of those about you.

Both vessels are to blame.

 

[Cruiser2B]

Not sure that it is collregs, but since I go in and out of a lock everytime I use the boat, everyone seems to know that you exit in the order that you entered. On occasion, the lie of the boats might mean it is easier for that order to change, but then you just agree with the opposite boat.Given we also have fishing boats and they dont seem to mind bumping into thimgs, everyone checks what they intend to do.
Seems to me the sailing boat skipper was either not thinking or wasnt paying attention.

+1 I can't see rule 13 coming into play. Maybe there are lock rules/regs that apply?

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Hope we newer meet - if this is your understanding of the rules (what about the rest?)

If the MB is overtaking - rule 13 is in effect.
http://www.sailtrain.co.uk/Irpcs/index.htm

That's how I would read it too (though we don't know for sure that the MB is overtaking).

Overtaking in confined water is a bit daft and the MB should have been aware that doing so could cause a problem of the two boats interacting.

Largely MB's fault. SB culpable for 10%, at most?

Mind you, it's a pointless discussion really. There is not enough information to see what really happened

 

[robertt]

I'm no expert but from a common sense point of view, in such a narrow channel, shouldn't just one boat be moving at a time?
Maybe that would just slow everything down though

 

[Grumpybear]

I'm no expert but from a common sense point of view, in such a narrow channel, shouldn't just one boat be moving at a time?
Maybe that would just slow everything down though

You are absolutely right. Impatience and selfishness seem to have been the main cause of that bump.

 

[Sgeir]

who is at fault?

Sad people who have nothing better to do than film the misfortunes of others.

Yep!

 

[dylanwinter]

I does seem to me as though the fishing boat decided that he was more important than those ahead of him

and it looked from the film as though he was overtaking boat

in my experience many "commercial" fishermen regard sailors as something slightly lower than pond life

two winters on the pontoon at Wells lead me to believe that some of them behave as though slamming moored boats against the woodwork is a bit of a laff

Dylan

 

[wotayottie]

you are right dylan. nothing to do with colregs or manners or anything else - steer clear of yobboes in small inshore fishing boats.