CO32, Sadler 32, then what??

Speed?

You were really hard done by if they made you race your W33 against Sigma 33 OODs on the same rating. Even more impressive if you could beat them. Up here a Sigma gives the Westerly more than 5 mins. in the hour.
Bit simplistic these days to equate boat speed with LWL. Stephen Jones, for instance, made his reputation out of persuading water that it had a lot further to go than that, and then you have hull drag and foil lift.
 
Twister_Ken said:
"This is why I said that the important comparison is straight boat for boat speed (no handicapping) and then the most significant factor will always be waterline length because that is what limits hull speed, that is a mathematical incontrovertible fact"

Only true if the boat is plumb upright. When she heels it is immersed waterline length which counts, which why boats like mine (28' loa, 21' lwl) sail faster than they theoretically can. When she heels it adds at least 4 feet to the waterline length, whereas heeling a modern plumb-bow/cut-off transom boat leaves the LWL virtually unaffected.
Click to expand...

Quite right but I was trying to keep it simple as I was having trouble making it make sense anyway!

However the angle of dangle effect becomes much less of a factor as the sheets are eased from closehauled. Re the plumb bowed straight transoms, we have friends with a Dehler 36 raceboat, all 36 is pretty well LWL and she goes like our neighbours cat droppings off my shovel.:)
 
Quandary said:
You were really hard done by if they made you race your W33 against Sigma 33 OODs on the same rating. Even more impressive if you could beat them. Up here a Sigma gives the Westerly more than 5 mins. in the hour.
Bit simplistic these days to equate boat speed with LWL. Stephen Jones, for instance, made his reputation out of persuading water that it had a lot further to go than that, and then you have hull drag and foil lift.
Click to expand...

I thought we were hard done by too at the time! This was all over 10 years ago now and it may have changed of course. However where we did score was on the passage races which were what I preferred, never did like round the cans much as it seemed pointless to be out all day and end up going nowhere! If we had a X-Channel race it was often no worse than a one tack leg and more often at a very nice 60 degs, our W33 liked those.:)

I agree too about later designs getting partially round the limitations of hullspeed but that hasn't really crossed over much yet to cruisers? Not really up on the modern cruiser/racer stuff.
 
Handicap

Whichever way you calculate the variables you can never reach a level for the whole fleet whether it´s Portsmouth Yardstick, RI, IMS, CHS basically sailing with a handicap is like dancing with your Sister - it doesn´t work. Bring in One Design everytime.

Here we have club regattas once a month, including a winter series (not really winter however). At the competetive end you´ve got various Dehlers, JOD 35, Fortunas and First .7 etc finishing together in the pack...then there´s always the HR Monsun 35 finishing light years behind, which of course after corrected time is well up in the top 6 or so ?? That´s the problem over-compensation from my experience hence the W33 is also up there after a very generously corrected time.
 
Robin said:
In our local (Poole) handicap system the W33 'family cruiser' rating (TCF or time correction factor) came out the same pretty much as a Sigma 33 'cruiser/racer' which on the face of it made it very hard on the W33. In fact, as long as the course was fairly evenly spread over upwind and offwind legs it was fair.
Click to expand...

You should either sail for a living or sell snake oil :-)
 
narcer said:
CO 32, Sadler 32, Rival 32 all fin & skeg progressions from the classic Folkboat. For performance though the CO32 wins everytime, plus the stabilty angle of this boat is extremely high at 160 degrees.

For me in this range of "classics" theres only one option after the CO32 and that´s the S&S 34. Real windward animals that, with a bit of a breeze can beat up a "Benny" any day of the week !

...I think Jon Sanders springs to mind with S&S 34 - twice non-stop singlehanded round the world (South of the main Capes)...can you imagine doing that in a Benny or a Jeanny, eerh don´t think so.
Click to expand...


narcer,
you may now eat your words.

Alain Maignan has just completed exactly that in his Jeanneau 34.2.

http://alainmaignan.sportblog.fr/7/

Sheesh.
 
Last edited:
Quandary said:
The website is www.cyca-online.org.uk (should have posted this because it is not an obvious one) If you search under 'classes by name' you will get all the production boats.
Click to expand...

Thanks again, very comprehensive. Some unusual boats there, nice to see a Britton Chance 24 listed, used to race on one of those.
Also the Contessa and Westerly 33 seem to um.....enjoy the expected rating relationship in Scottish waters.
 
doug748 said:
Thanks again, very comprehensive. Some unusual boats there, nice to see a Britton Chance 24 listed, used to race on one of those.
Also the Contessa and Westerly 33 seem to um.....enjoy the expected rating relationship in Scottish waters.
Click to expand...

Nice also to see our boat for the last 8 years, a Sun Legende 41, way way up there with the seriously speedy machines, even without me on the wheel.:) Mind you we would have picked up some serious silverware with our earlier W33 on those handicaps. :p

Still comes back to what I and others said earlier, handicap racing is never the real deal, because only strict one-design can be that with true crew versus crew competition. That apart, boat versus boat and no calculators to confuse things then speed is directly related to waterline length, mathematical fundamental fact. Like the lady says, size matters and it isn't the foot of overall length that does it but the almost 5 foot difference on waterline length and an extra 0.6kts of potential hull speed between a Co32 and a W33. That isn't knocking a Co32 at all because the W33 is a whole lot bigger boat indeed, even the displacement is close to double that of a Co32.

Anyway all water over the bar now as our next boat will not have sails.:(
 
It all depends on how one would define better and what one wants in a boat. All boats are a compromise, different sailors giving some criteria more importance than others.

For me, the 'best' 32 is the Wauquiez Centurion 32. In my view that boat has sheer class that I don't think other boats of the same era / size approach, let alone match.
 
doug748 said:
What you need is one of these:


http://www.fisher-37.com/?gclid=CKWJv5f10J8CFUsA4wodDm0Mpg


33 foot waterline, you will clean up, next years Fastnet, then the world.
Click to expand...

I suppose as you own a Co32 you feel you must attack any critique.

We sold our W33 over 8 years back and had a Sun Legende 41 since then until just last month and are now boatless. At least I can speak from a more un-biased viewpoint. I told you what we did with our then W33 and you chose to virtually accuse me of lying, which I assure you I was not.:mad:

Like I have said, the Co32 is a very pretty boat. In my personal opinion it is neither spacious, nor is it by modern standards fast.

Sure Jeremy Rogers makes them go when he races, but then he has also won the Round The Island Race in a Co26 which suggests the results were in the hands of the handicappers and the very able nut on the end of the tiller.

Have a nice day.
 
Robin said:
I suppose as you own a Co32 you feel you must attack any critique.
Click to expand...



If you want to see partial comment see PuffTMD above, I am afraid you will not find me gushing in quite such a manner

I could give you a critique of the Contessa 32 and it would be a long one, but it would not include being slower upwind than a Westerly 33 Ketch.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

I
Sadler 32
3 4 5
Replies
93
Views
3K
Mark-1
Mark-1

Share this page

Top