CO32, Sadler 32, then what??

Twister_Ken said:
The Starlight, lovely tho' she is, can hardly be described as slim. 3.51m beam. Hardly podgy, but only a few cm less than some of the bloated AWBs.
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You're right but its very odd because she looks a lot slimmer than the Bennies etc moored along the pontoon. Possibly its the difference between max beam and beam at the transom. Either way its a really well balanced hull and all the boat tests at the time said so. Totally failed ever to get mine to round up.
 
Hunter Mystery 35. (Sorry Cornish Mystery these days) Looks as good as a Contessa if not better but much faster with a better sail plan and modern underwater profile. Ballast ratio 140% beam 3.02m. Suffers the same problems that accommodation is cramped and it quite expensive.
 
PeterR said:
Hunter Mystery 35. (Sorry Cornish Mystery these days) Looks as good as a Contessa if not better but much faster with a better sail plan and modern underwater profile. Ballast ratio 140% beam 3.02m. Suffers the same problems that accommodation is cramped and it quite expensive.
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Ballast ratio of 140% now that is impressive! Especially if she still floats...
 
>Contessa 32. Has anything better come along since in terms of seaworthiness, speed and comfort?

On the UK side Vancouver, Rival, Bowman to name few. However with the collapse of UK boat building you now need to turn to the USA. Morris, Shannon, Island Packet and a number of others are both quality build and seaworthy (i.e designed for long passages).
 
Contessa 32. Has anything better come along since in terms of seaworthiness, speed and comfort?

Strange question this? I love the Contessa 32 because it is such a pretty and elegant boat under sail and it has a reputation for seaworthiness, but it was never fast, even in its own era, and while it is 'sea kindly' there have been hundreds of competitors for comfort even with only two or three aboard.
 
Quandary said:
Contessa 32. Has anything better come along since in terms of seaworthiness, speed and comfort?

Strange question this? I love the Contessa 32 because it is such a pretty and elegant boat under sail and it has a reputation for seaworthiness, but it was never fast, even in its own era, and while it is 'sea kindly' there have been hundreds of competitors for comfort even with only two or three aboard.
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That wan't the original question which referenced the CO32 as the start of a design process. It was the progression of this design process that interested me more so than the characteristics of a well known boat.
 
SAWDOC said:
That wan't the original question which referenced the CO32 as the start of a design process. It was the progression of this design process that interested me more so than the characteristics of a well known boat.
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You must be an awful lot younger than me if you regard the Contessa 32 as the start of a design process, it was regarded as conservative at the time, when the aerodynamic fin keel and spade rudder was beginning to develop. It was a classic, but an aberration, Sadlers later boats were never as elegant. He always had Sparkman and Stephens as pioneers and an immaculate source of ideas. The real innovators in the UK were David Thomas whose boats in any size bracket outperformed Sadlers and later Rob Humpreys. Things changed massively in the late sixties and early seventies, then the IOR distorted everything, Stephen Jones was able to exploit it with the Hustler 32 etc. with their pinched sterns but some of these boats were really hard to sail in strong winds. I could go on to place Bruce Kirby, Ron Holland and then Bruce Farr but you don't really want an abbreviated history lecture.
 
Quandary said:
You must be an awful lot younger than me if you regard the Contessa 32 as the start of a design process, it was regarded as conservative at the time, when the aerodynamic fin keel and spade rudder was beginning to develop. It was a classic, but an aberration, Sadlers later boats were never as elegant. He always had Sparkman and Stephens as pioneers and an immaculate source of ideas. The real innovators in the UK were David Thomas whose boats in any size bracket outperformed Sadlers and later Rob Humpreys. Things changed massively in the late sixties and early seventies, then the IOR distorted everything, Stephen Jones was able to exploit it with the Hustler 32 etc. with their pinched sterns but some of these boats were really hard to sail in strong winds. I could go on to place Bruce Kirby, Ron Holland and then Bruce Farr but you don't really want an abbreviated history lecture.
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On the contrary, you show a good knowledge of how the design process has evolved which I find most interesting!! I could read an essay on this topic. Thanks for coming back.
 
SAWDOC said:
That wan't the original question which referenced the CO32 as the start of a design process. It was the progression of this design process that interested me more so than the characteristics of a well known boat.
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Of course the 32 owed a lot to Sunden's Folkboat with a bit of Sparkman and Stephens thrown in. The recent YM series on awd boats was very interesting in linking the parentage of many demi classics like the Rustlers, Nicholsons etc.
David Sadler was much more savvy on the manufacturing side with the Sadler range, good boats though they are.
 
In that there are a limited number of (successful) designers, and that they are always looking at their competitors' designs to make sure there aren't developments they are missing out on, it's possible to make a case that almost every new boat has its roots in one or more boats that preceded it. Try and think of boats that were truly different. It's difficult.

I'll offer you 'Odd Job' by Stephen Jones as a starter, and as a main course 'Romilly' by Nigel Irens.
 
Twister_Ken said:
In that there are a limited number of (successful) designers, and that they are always looking at their competitors' designs to make sure there aren't developments they are missing out on, it's possible to make a case that almost every new boat has its roots in one or more boats that preceded it. Try and think of boats that were truly different. It's difficult.

I'll offer you 'Odd Job' by Stephen Jones as a starter, and as a main course 'Romilly' by Nigel Irens.
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Jack Knights Odd Job" was based in SYH Suffolk for many yrs. wasnt she built by Fox`s
 
Twister_Ken said:
In that there are a limited number of (successful) designers, and that they are always looking at their competitors' designs to make sure there aren't developments they are missing out on....
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This has prompted me to root about in my archive. In 2000 YM said:

" in the Contessa's fine ends, slim but deep canoe body and modest freeboard are echoes of the work of great designers - Arthur Clark, Jack Laurent Giles, Alan Buchanan, Kim Holman, Olin Stephens -"

Rogers and Sadler themselves acknowledged:

"....in particular they looked at designs like the S&S 34, the She 31 and the Arpege...."

It is difficult to think of designs that sprang out of the blue, most things have been done before usually by the Victorians. Maybe Uffa Fox's Atalanta was sufficiently different to ideas of the day to be worth a mention.
 
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Has the book been written yet :" Evolution of sailboat design in late 20th century Europe"?
If so could someone point me in the right direction. If not, I suggest that some posters such as Quandary, doug748 and Twister Ken could have a lovely project to develop if they were so inclined....
 
Windward animals

CO 32, Sadler 32, Rival 32 all fin & skeg progressions from the classic Folkboat. For performance though the CO32 wins everytime, plus the stabilty angle of this boat is extremely high at 160 degrees.

For me in this range of "classics" theres only one option after the CO32 and that´s the S&S 34. Real windward animals that, with a bit of a breeze can beat up a "Benny" any day of the week !

...I think Jon Sanders springs to mind with S&S 34 - twice non-stop singlehanded round the world (South of the main Capes)...can you imagine doing that in a Benny or a Jeanny, eerh don´t think so.
 
narcer said:
CO 32, Sadler 32, Rival 32 all fin & skeg progressions from the classic Folkboat. For performance though the CO32 wins everytime, plus the stabilty angle of this boat is extremely high at 160 degrees.

For me in this range of "classics" theres only one option after the CO32 and that´s the S&S 34. Real windward animals that, with a bit of a breeze can beat up a "Benny" any day of the week !

...I think Jon Sanders springs to mind with S&S 34 - twice non-stop singlehanded round the world (South of the main Capes)...can you imagine doing that in a Benny or a Jeanny, eerh don´t think so.
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I raced a Sigma 33 for years in a mixed fleet, the Sigma and, for instance, a Bene.32s5 could point as high or higher than a well sailed CO32 and get to windward about 1/2 kt faster. Contessas went well and looked good doing it, but they were never that fast. The waterline length is only 24' my modern 33 footer has a waterline length of over 30', points higher than the Sigma and goes nearly a knot faster to windward. Some people regard her as a pretty boat despite her blunt ends. I would not regard her as unsuitable for any particular ocean, she is at least as seaworthy as my Sigma 38 and one of those (Paracelsus?) won the 'racing' division of the ARC before going on around the world.
 
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