Clever knot or similar for quickly releasing mooring warp from cleat?

[Poignard]

I like the tumble hitch because you're only pulling about 300 - 400mm of line off the pontoon cleat compared with pulling about 9 metres (with my boat) round it when using a slip rope.

That reduces the chances of a snarl-up and saves time, which can be crucial when single-handing in difficult conditions.

If properly made and tightened up, the tumble hitch won't come loose and a sharp pull on the non-load bearing line always releases it. If you're concerned about the line going in the water (not that much of it will, if any), lead the trip part back to the cockpit via a spare block at the shrouds.

 

[prv]

How strong is det-cord?
Nothing trailing, guaranteed instant release, only down side is you might not have a mooring cleat to come back to.

Pete

 

[duncan99210]

I've been using a simple slip line for mooring in the Med since we got there. The lines I have are 12-15 metres long, as we often need a stand off from the quay wall if there's a swell running. Even though there's usually two of us on board, SWMBO is at the bow doing the anchor thingy, whilst I manage the lines at the stern, look to the motor and steer. I use 14mm braid on braid in some heavy stretchy rope. I've had one or two tangles in all the many times we've left berth in five years living aboard, so I'm not too worried about that aspect of things. However, I have seen folks using hawser laid rope get into all sorts of fun, as it seems to be much more prone to coiling up in a ball when the tension is released, so perhaps I've been lucky in having SWMBO on board, as she insists on lines that are nice to handle and hawser laid lines, in her highly valued opinion, are not nice.

 

[LittleSister]

I like the tumble hitch because you're only pulling about 300 - 400mm of line off the pontoon cleat compared with pulling about 9 metres (with my boat) round it when using a slip rope.

That reduces the chances of a snarl-up and saves time, which can be crucial when single-handing in difficult conditions.

If properly made and tightened up, the tumble hitch won't come loose and a sharp pull on the non-load bearing line always releases it.

Thanks, that's reassuring

If you're concerned about the line going in the water (not that much of it will, if any), lead the trip part back to the cockpit via a spare block at the shrouds.

I can't see how not much of it will go in the water, unless I buy anti-gravity rope! I'll have about 14m of line hanging in a loop from our not very high toe rail (less than 2 metres from the prop!).


I'm impatient now to try the slip rope out, though. (Ideally in the dead of night with no one around!) I'll report back. (Unless it all goes horribly wrong!)

 

[EdWingfield]

I'm a single-hander with a 10m boat which is difficult to reliably control going astern.

If in doubt of your manoeuvre, explain to the manager that you require help to get out and to avoid clouting someone's boat. They'll send a team, or maybe even a workboat to tow you out backwards. That's what we pay them for.

Except Ramsgate. 'No Sir, Health and Safety.'

 

[Daydream believer]

In my marina that work boat would cost you another £ 100-00 & could only be done when staff available which invariably would not be when the tides are right to leave.

I really wonder about all these lines for maneuvers. One can get too clever with them & as pointed out a slight snag can cause carnage. If one is singe handed messing about with lines can really be awkward , especially in an adverse wind. I have had 2 long keel boats that did not always do what i wanted but simple planning seemed to be the answer. ie reverse in the berth or reverse right out between all the pontoons rather than turn right away. Once the boat is moving it normally does have some response to the helm & some people seem a little shy of using some welly. My current boat is highly manouverable with way on but did the oddest things when going from astern to forward due to the Brunton Autopop having a mind of its own until I learned how to predict it.
Possibly the OP cannot dictate what berth he is placed in but, thinking laterally, there must be other ways around the problem

 

[Poignard]

In my marina that work boat would cost you another £ 100-00 & could only be done when staff available which invariably would not be when the tides are right to leave.

I really wonder about all these lines for maneuvers. One can get too clever with them & as pointed out a slight snag can cause carnage. If one is singe handed messing about with lines can really be awkward , especially in an adverse wind. I have had 2 long keel boats that did not always do what i wanted but simple planning seemed to be the answer. ie reverse in the berth or reverse right out between all the pontoons rather than turn right away. Once the boat is moving it normally does have some response to the helm & some people seem a little shy of using some welly. My current boat is highly manouverable with way on but did the oddest things when going from astern to forward due to the Brunton Autopop having a mind of its own until I learned how to predict it.
Possibly the OP cannot dictate what berth he is placed in but, thinking laterally, there must be other ways around the problem

I'd like to know how to steer my Twister astern between a finger berth and another yacht. As it is impossible to steer her astern (even Tom Cunliffe can't do it), I and other Twister owners would appreciate your describing the proceedure to be followed.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

A highwayman's hitch does tend to jam though if it's subjected to much load. It can also come loose if pulled hard enough, which might be a problem in the OP's situation.

The tumble hitch is supposed to suffer less from the former problem, not sure about the latter, but I have little experience with it as I can never remember how to tie the thing . Whereas a highwayman's hitch I learned in Cubs and can do without thinking; I often use it for a dinghy painter temporarily.



That's a highwayman's hitch

Pete

Worth remembering that knots for holding a horse not be suitable for boats. The reason is that a horse has some intelligence, and has generally been trained to stay where it is. It is also routinely controlled by pressure on "ropes" attached to the bridle. So, a rope is to remind it to stay put, not to hold it. A horse (I am told) will not exert a sustained pull on a line; it may tug at it, but only for a moment (apparently the Levi's logo (two horses pulling a set of trousers apart) would be very difficult to achieve in practice). Of course, a boat pressed by the wind or under engine may well exert a large sustained pull on a line, so knots designed to hold a horse may well either jam or slip.

 

[Poignard]

Worth remembering that knots for holding a horse not be suitable for boats. (...)

Worth also remembering that a yachtsman is not a highwayman and is less likely to leave his "mount" unattended while he swigs ale in a pub and fondles the barmaid

I don't think anyone would be daft enough to leave his boat secured only by a highwayman's hitch (or my preferred tumble hitch) for more than a few moments. It's essentially a short term expedient.

 

[Daydream believer]

I'd like to know how to steer my Twister astern between a finger berth and another yacht. As it is impossible to steer her astern (even Tom Cunliffe can't do it), I and other Twister owners would appreciate your describing the proceedure to be followed.

Never been on a Twister so cannot comment but I had a Stella which might be considered a small Twister & that was a piece of p,, to get in & out of berths once I knew it particular traits. Of course a lot depends on the boat but having watched some people ( & I am not suggesting the OP is in this category for one minute) I sometimes wonder if they have a clue what they are doing. We all have to learn though & if one finds a particular method works for them then so be it . But experience has shown over the years that just because a task has always been done that way it is the only way !!!

But if I had a go on your twister for a while i am sure I would not let it beat me - regardless of what you or Tom Cunliffe thinks

 

[jbweston]

Worth also remembering that a yachtsman is not a highwayman and is less likely to leave his "mount" unattended while he swigs ale in a pub and fondles the barmaid

I don't know about that. I rather like barmaids.

 

[Daydream believer]

I don't know about that. I rather like barmaids.

Careful what you wish for there is a pub I visited on my trip round Uk in Newlyn where the barmaid would have frightened the life out of you & fondling is definitely out

 

[LittleSister]

I was trying to resist rising to the bait, but. . . .

I really wonder about all these lines for maneuvers. One can get too clever with them & as pointed out a slight snag can cause carnage.

We are talking about one line.

I have had 2 long keel boats that did not always do what i wanted but simple planning seemed to be the answer.

That's exactly what I'm doing - simple planning.

ie reverse in the berth or reverse right out between all the pontoons rather than turn right away.

Having manouevred this boat many hundreds of times in dozens of different berths (and practised in open water to see what it will and won't do) over quite a few years, I know that my chances of getting cleanly into that particular berth (chosen as the best from the available options in the light of the boat's prop walk, prevailing wind and various other factors) in reverse are very low. To have enough steerage to confidently make the tight turn into it (even though it's the direction the boat likes to turn) I would have to be coming through the tightly spaced marina, with poor forward visibility, at an unsafe speed, and that speed would also prevent me successfully making the previous tight turn (against the boat's preferred direction of turn) in the dog leg approach to the berth. Therefore the only seamanlike and considerate way is to go forward into the berth.

The boat wouldn't turn quickly enough (against its preference) for me to head towards the marina exit in reverse, and would in any case then need excessive speed to be able to steer through the subsequent bends.

Once the boat is moving it normally does have some response to the helm & some people seem a little shy of using some welly.

The key word there is 'some'. With the experience and practise mentioned above I have a good idea about how much (and what type) 'some' response amounts to on my boat; and also when 'using some welly' might help, and when it might just convert mild embarassment into serious damage.

My current boat is highly manouverable with way on but did the oddest things when going from astern to forward due to the Brunton Autopop having a mind of its own until I learned how to predict it.

Bully for you. I have learned to predict that my boat won't go with any certainty in reverse into that berth, or out through a narrow winding channel lined with expensive boats, in reverse; and that it might reverse out of the berth OK to port (ready to motor out of the marina in forward), but it would be advisable to provide some 'external' means (like a slip line) of turning the boat faster than it otherwise would.

thinking laterally, there must be other ways around the problem

There probably are. By thinking laterally, I came up with a number of potential solutions. A slip line just currently appears the most promising.
Further suggestions are welcome.

Finally, I would like to allay the rising panic this thread may well be causing among the other berth holders in my new marina: Don't worry, it'll be fine. (Probably! )

 

[Poignard]

How to steer a long keeler astern into a narrow berth

Never been on a Twister so cannot comment but I had a Stella which might be considered a small Twister & that was a piece of p,, to get in & out of berths once I knew it particular traits. Of course a lot depends on the boat but having watched some people ( & I am not suggesting the OP is in this category for one minute) I sometimes wonder if they have a clue what they are doing. We all have to learn though & if one finds a particular method works for them then so be it . But experience has shown over the years that just because a task has always been done that way it is the only way !!!

But if I had a go on your twister for a while i am sure I would not let it beat me - regardless of what you or Tom Cunliffe thinks

I'm sure you're superior in every way (as you never tire of telling us) but as we are unlikely to meet up I cannot ask you to give me a practical lesson in reversing my boat into a berth. Perhaps you could describe here the method you would adopt?

Let's suppose I have entered a marina and am motoring down between the pontoons looking for an empty place. The only available finger pontoon is on my starboard side as I move towards it and, if I successfully reverse in, the finger will be on my starboard side. On my port side will be another yacht; a very shiny new one. To make it easier, let's also suppose there's no tide running but the wind is coming from my port side.

I am single-handed, my engine is a slow to respond 10hp, it is impossible to steer the boat astern because the rudder has no effect, and prop kick in astern pushes the stern to port.

What would you advise? Bearing in mind your belief in using plenty of welly and your dislike of using lines to manouvre the boat.

 

[Daydream believer]

Re: How to steer a long keeler astern into a narrow berth

I'm sure you're superior in every way (as you never tire of telling us)

Not quite sure where that one comes from
Sure it is not just you having an inferiority complex

 

[Poignard]

Re: How to steer a long keeler astern into a narrow berth

Not quite sure where that one comes from
Sure it is not just you having an inferiority complex

I think not, but perhaps if you were not such a sanctimonious know-all you'd be less likely to get responses you don't like.

Meanwhile are you able to answer my question?

 

[Daydream believer]

Re: How to steer a long keeler astern into a narrow berth

I think not, but perhaps if you were not such a sanctimonious know-all you'd be less likely to get responses you don't like.

Meanwhile are you able to answer my question?

I did not start out trying to insult anybody but your reply prompted my response & i really do not intend to get into a slanging match.
I pointed out that there has to be alternatives.I can picture all sort of problems with a line ( or lines) if they snagged
You disagree. Ok , that is your right.
I am certainly not going to be drawn further into this - if you really want lessons on how to manage your boat then look elsewhere.

 

[snowleopard]

A tumble hitch. Very useful.

http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/tumble-hitch

AKA Highwayman's hitch

Not very reliable as far as holding is concerned. I certainly wouldn't want to rely on it to hold my boat.

A key feature of the knot is that you have to pull on the other end of the rope so it requires you to have a long length with both ends on board, as you would with a slip rope - only it's not as reliable in holding or releasing.

The first question I would ask is - what situation would I find myself in if the rope failed to release?

 

[Poignard]

AKA Highwayman's hitch

Not very reliable as far as holding is concerned. I certainly wouldn't want to rely on it to hold my boat.

A key feature of the knot is that you have to pull on the other end of the rope so it requires you to have a long length with both ends on board, as you would with a slip rope - only it's not as reliable in holding or releasing.

The first question I would ask is - what situation would I find myself in if the rope failed to release?

It isn't a Highwayman's Hitch, it's an improvement on it.

It is a purely a temporary hitch. There's no way I would leave my boat unattended and secured only by that. If it's properly tied,and pulled up tight, it's perfectly secure while you remove other lines and get yourself back into the cockpit, ready to go.

Unlike a slip rope, you are not having to haul in up to a boat's length of line. Pull the release side line a foot or two and it's instantly clear of the pontoon cleat.

It would only fail to release if it was improperly tied. It might need a good tug but if I, a frail little old pensioner, have never had any trouble pulling it free I'm sure you wouldn't. But if, as a result of not tying it correctly, it did fail to release, you're in no worse position than if a long slip rope developed a kink and jammed.

All I can suggest is try tying and releasing it on the banisters at home and see if it suits you. If you don't like it, no need to use it.

I've never sailed in a catmaran, but I've been told they are soon caught by the wind. In that case I imagine you wouldn't want to hang about when your dock lines are off so a quickly released hitch would seem to be ideal.