Choice of 1st boat

[b0wen]

Hi all, I'm a newbie to the forum & have really enjoyed reading all the threads!

I'm in the (selection) process of buying my first sail boat & would love your input!

I'm currently looking at 3 boats; a trident 24, a fin-keeled pageant (kendal?) & a scod 26.

They're all listed for the same price & according to each seller are all in "sail away condition". This sounds encouraging but i'm still going to get a survey done!

I'm looking for a boat that is comfortable in making offshore passages if needed (i'm planning on crossing the channel), that can be sailed single-handedly & has a separate heads compartment (keep swmbo happy).

I've only heard good things about tridents, I really enjoy the look of a scod & there is something appealing about a wooden boat (but the maintenance side of things is a worry) & i've been told of westerly's built of grp in the 70's have hulls that are built like a brick sh*t house, which is encouraging!

I'm actually in no rush to buy at this moment in time but have started doing my homework about what is available etc I would however like to all setup & ready to go by March 2013 as I have the best part of 2013 off work to go exploring in my boat!

 

[Kelpie]

Hi all, I'm a newbie to the forum & have really enjoyed reading all the threads!

I'm in the (selection) process of buying my first sail boat & would love your input!

I'm currently looking at 3 boats; a trident 24, a fin-keeled pageant (kendal?) & a scod 26.

They're all listed for the same price & according to each seller are all in "sail away condition". This sounds encouraging but i'm still going to get a survey done!

I'm looking for a boat that is comfortable in making offshore passages if needed (i'm planning on crossing the channel), that can be sailed single-handedly & has a separate heads compartment (keep swmbo happy).

I've only heard good things about tridents, I really enjoy the look of a scod & there is something appealing about a wooden boat (but the maintenance side of things is a worry) & i've been told of westerly's built of grp in the 70's have hulls that are built like a brick sh*t house, which is encouraging!

I'm actually in no rush to buy at this moment in time but have started doing my homework about what is available etc I would however like to all setup & ready to go by March 2013 as I have the best part of 2013 off work to go exploring in my boat!

Welcome to the forum.
I think all three are probably sensible choices for first boat.

I'd imagine that, once you have viewed all three boats, you will find that one of them makes more sense than the others. The biggest factor is how well it has been looked after and updated over the years. It is a long time since any of these boats were new, so you are at the mercy of the previous owners.
The engine is probably the single most important factor. Is it original? If so, how reliable is it, and can you still get spares? A new engine within the last ten years or so is a big plus point, and probably outweighs almost all other considerations (IMHO).
Age of the sails and rig is also important. Recent replacements are a sign of a conscientious owner.
Other gear, such as dinghy, outboard, liferaft, electronics, can be very worth having because they are expensive. But only worth paying extra for if they are fairly new and in good working order.

The right boat will have an inventory the length of your arm, with dates on everything.

As to the actual boats, I think all three are quite well respected. I knew a guy who lived aboard a SCOD for 2yrs and sailed it to Norway and back. Nice boats, but are you sure you want wood? It's not for everyone. No experience of the other two but I have read complimentary remarks about them on here.

 

[Behome]

End of season, a good time to buy - prices are low if someone wants to unload before paying winter storage. Also gives you time to get the boat ready for next season. You need to be rich or very handy to care for a wooden boat.

 

[Spuddy]

Despite the SCOD pedigree, I'd avoid wooden boats. So many are getting old and have latent problems just lurking ready to steal your wallet and time.
Decide if you really do want sail away condition - it's worth paying a bit more for one that really is ready to go. I thought mine just needed a bit of fettling and some TLC but took a couple of years and some thousands. Mind you some folks really like an everlasting project.

 

[b0wen]

thank you very much for the replies - this is exactly what I hoped for.

I have no experience of wooden boats (I just like the "idea" of them) so I really appreciate the advice on the scod & wooden boats in general!

Thanks again!

 

[interloper]

Seeing as I live on the other side of the Atlantic, it is not my place to offer an opinion, but I will anyway. Here are my thoughts:

1. On the boats I've owned, I've spent more time on wood trim than on maintenance for the entire rest of the boat. Maybe I would consider buying a wooden boat if I enjoyed doing that sort of work, or had someone else who would do the work, but I really don't enjoy it, and I don't know of anyone who would do a competent job even if I had the money to pay them.

2. On the boats I've owned, I've spent more money on engines than on maintenance for the entire rest of the boat. Unless the engine is new, and the installation is superb, plan your budget based on the idea that it will need replacement, or at least a major overhaul in the next couple of years. Unlike woodwork, you can find people to work on engines if you can afford to pay them.

3. The decision on which boat to buy should not be considered independently of where the boat will be kept. Are all three deep-keel boats? I see that the Trident 24 was built with three keel configurations: deep keel, centerboard, and triple keel. If you will have a drying mooring, and the Trident is the triple keel version, the decision is already made.

4. Never buy an ugly boat. Ugly boats get neglected. Almost any vice that a boat may have is forgivable as long as it is good looking. I would not label the Westerly Kendal as ugly, but it is not as graceful as the others.

Good luck! I envy you for having such a dilemma.

 

[Uricanejack]

For a first boat?
The biggest and best you can afford to by and keep.
It really depends on the type of sailing you intend to do and where.
Particularly the where you intend to keep it.
Trailerable, low cost to keep but you are limited in size and weight.
Wooden Baddddd Idea. Cheep to by very expensive to maintain and very time consuming unless you want a labour of love. You have to enjoy the maintenance more than the sailing.

Heavy long keel for cruising in any weather may seam like a great idea at first. until you realize you only sail in nice weather close to base most of the time. With a week or so expedition in the summer. You would go further but your limited by having to sail back and how far you can get back from in a weekend.

Or you think you might enjoy the occasional local club race.

I just sold my first boat. She was or is a 24ft C&C. about 35 years old.
She fit my budget which was small and came after all the usual pryorates. of life.
A relative deep fin keel to heavy for my vehicle to trailer. I have my own mooring but
choose to keep in marina during peak season for convinence. very expensive.
The important thing was she sailed well for my cruising area. A relatively light but tough little boat. Very limited comfort. No stove in galley.
If it looks nice it should sail well

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

If you want something that looks nice don't get anything with a reverse sheer! After a while and after looking at everyone else's you'll regret it! I'd have thought something like a Sadler 25 would suit ... use Yachtworld.com/Boatshed/Boatshop24 etc to get an idea of prices,
or just put in the search boxes your budget, length required and hull type preference (wood/grp). Should get 100s to look at.

 

[RupertW]

SCODs are beautiful boats and sail very well for something of their weight. A lovely easy motion compared to more modern boats which can slam and bounce. Like all wooden boats they are a labour of love and as long as I enjoyed the carpentry and painting and caulking and ...etc etc. etc then I loved owning one.

As time got shorter then I just wanted to sail with less (but nowhere near nil) maintenance and bought a fibreglass boat.

I liked my first GRP 24 footer so much I went back to the same model decades later as it sailed so well and fitted like a glove, and got us half way down the Biscay coast on our honeymoon - as well as having the galley, table, separate heads and double bed albeit all in miniature.

I don't regret starting small at all and have had a lot of fun over the last few years revisiting the ease of sail hoisting, day sails and parking compared to a bigger boat.

Although we do have a bigger boat now, it's 2 hours flight away so we still have the 24 footer and hope to get one more season out of it before selling, although all logic tells me to sell it now and concentrate on the new one.

Have fun looking and sailing

 

[Seajet]

boWen

welcome,

wooden boats like SCODs are lovely but can soon become 'a hole in the water one pours money into', without much return in sailing !

Avoid while you are busy learning cruisers, grp will serve you best.

When you say 'first boat' I hope you have sailed dinghies, as that's the way to learn sailing.

A top tip with your first cruiser is to keep it cheap and cheerful; after a season or two your idea of requirements may well be very different, and certainly more refined with a narrower search to suit you, re keel type, performance, number of berths etc.

One top tip I found out the hard way on my Carter 30; if thinking of a cruiser, always try lying down on the bunks, what can look spiffing can turn out to be narrow or short, or ones' head below feet !

 

[Pitterpatter]

I have no experience of wooden boats (I just like the "idea" of them) so I really appreciate the advice on the scod & wooden boats in general!

I grew up sailing a wooden wayfarer. Luckily my Dad did the maintenance, but based on the countless evenings he spent in the garage from November to March evey year sanding, painting and varnishing I would not have a wooden boat. That was only a dinghy, but it really was a full winter to get ready for the next season. So plastic all the way!

I would also recommend as said, getting the biggest you can afford. I would not entertain taking swmbo on something that she could not stand up straight in - imagine the whinging from having to wash up stooped over! That was pre-req 1 for me so mean't 28ft up really.

And get the boat with the extras - it'll cost thousands more to equipe the one that looks spacious because it's empty. I know!

 

[b0wen]

Excellent advice thank you very much! I don't think I was too aware of the extra maintenance needed with a scod compared to a grp boat & I'm pulling away from the idea of the scod I think (one for the future maybe!).

 

[V1701]

There's lots of others that you could consider, have a look at what's available in your area for your budget plus a bit more (mosts sellers would accept a "reasonable" offer) and judge them on their merits. I wouldn't get too hung up on makes/models unless you have very specific requirements. Have a trawl round Yachtsnet Archive if you haven't already done so. Western Horizon also have an archive. If you're not in a rush there are bargains to be had, sometimes for silly money. I agree that a newish engine is a massive plus, it was one of the must have criteria for me when choosing my second boat...

 

[b0wen]

There's lots of others that you could consider, have a look at what's available in your area for your budget plus a bit more (mosts sellers would accept a "reasonable" offer) and judge them on their merits. I wouldn't get too hung up on makes/models unless you have very specific requirements. Have a trawl round Yachtsnet Archive if you haven't already done so. Western Horizon also have an archive. If you're not in a rush there are bargains to be had, sometimes for silly money. I agree that a newish engine is a massive plus, it was one of the must have criteria for me when choosing my second boat...

I have the yachtsnet archive bookmarked & use it when I see a model i'm not familiar with but was not aware that western horizon had one so thanks very much for that!

 

[johnalison]

The boats mentioned by the OP are going to be a bit small and pretty slow if he is planning to cross the Channel, so he will be very restricted in his weather window. A more modern boat, like the Sadler 25 mentioned later, would be more practical for offshore work and less strain on the crew.

The advice I was given early on was "choose a good designer, not the boat".

 

[mickywillis]

OP, I was in the same situation as yourself 4 years ago and ended up buying a bilge keel Pageant. Great safe boat, which has looked after myself and Mrs W on our trips in the Solent. Its usualy us that bottle out 1st before the boat does in nasty weather!!

You really do need to consider the wider picture though. Its not just about what boat to buy, its all the other things which go with it.
1st where will you keep it, marina, swinging mooring, drying mudberth, etc? This will affect your choice of boat.
Consider the bigger the boat, the bigger the bills, not just in mooring fees, but insurance, antifouling, maintenance, slipping fees, etc.

If this is your first ever boat, consider something which you can use safely and has plenty of safety equipment onboard (or at least invest in buying it) A 30ft fin keel may not be the best choice as a 1st boat if you haven't done much sailing. I looked at a Dufour Arpege when I started looking, but was advised against it as a first boat due to my lack of knowledge in respect of yacht handling and sailing. I now would be happy with a 30 footer (or bigger) having gained the experience on the Pageant.
We will consider buying a bigger boat in the future but to be honest the weather this year has meant that we really didn't use Zara as much as we would have liked, so cant really justify spending a large amount of cash on something we cant use that often.
Good luck with your hunt and enjoy your new purchase whatever it is!!

 

[robmcg]

I'll let you have my lovely Trapper 500 for £7k. Guarantee your SWMBO will love the interior too as its got all new professional upholstery done.

 

[LittleSister]

I'd say DON'T buy the biggest you can afford as your first boat. Buy something you can best afford that is tidy, well looked after, reasonably well equipped, and will be easy to sell again - a popular model such as virtually all the Westerlys) is a big advantage here.

Note that maintenance, repairs, mooring and equipment will cost you far more than you expect, even if you have done the sums, especially when you first start boating and have to equip youreslf from scratch and haven't found the cheapest places and solutions.

Both the Trident and the Westerly will be fine for crossing the channel, and big enough to live on for a few days/weeks unless you are very precious or disabled. Both, and anything remotely like these, will be a lot of fun and enjoyment.

You will almost certainly want to sell your boat again in a couple of years. The chances of your first boat being your ideal are negligble. You will find what you like and dislike about your present boat, and see more of the available alternatives. You will probably want something bigger or smaller. Even if, unlikely as it is, you find whatever model you buy is just the boat for you, you might want a newer one in better condition, or with a different engine, rig, layout or whatever. In the remote likelihood of wanting to keep your first boat forever, you have lost nothing by buying something you can easily resell.

Good luck and happy sailing.

 

[Seajet]

As mentioned, your best bet is a dinghy to start with - go on a course - then get a cheap small cruiser to learn what you are looking for in a boat; it could be something like a Macwester with lots of accomodation but sails like a brick, or a performance design keeping you thrilled but wet, or something in between...

The Trapper 500 is an excellent compromise and a good boat; I have no connection with the poster who mentioned one.

Do consider marina costs though, and deep water moorings are usuallly in the middle of nowhere - check if there's tidal access by rigid tender and somewhere secure to keep the dinghy - a lot of deep water moorings have the boat nicely afloat but no access to her ! - ( inflatables are soon knackered, have low freeboard in even slight waves and a total pain ) - I found that out about deep water moorings the hard way.

As long as you can afford around £3000 a year to blow away on a marina berth, the Trapper 500/501 is a good boat, a bit of a well kept secret value wise.

As mentioned, no connection with the poster selling one.

Andy

 

[ukmctc]

Hi all, I'm a newbie to the forum & have really enjoyed reading all the threads!

I'm in the (selection) process of buying my first sail boat & would love your input!

I'm currently looking at 3 boats; a trident 24, a fin-keeled pageant (kendal?) & a scod 26.

They're all listed for the same price & according to each seller are all in "sail away condition". This sounds encouraging but i'm still going to get a survey done!

I'm looking for a boat that is comfortable in making offshore passages if needed (i'm planning on crossing the channel), that can be sailed single-handedly & has a separate heads compartment (keep swmbo happy).

I've only heard good things about tridents, I really enjoy the look of a scod & there is something appealing about a wooden boat (but the maintenance side of things is a worry) & i've been told of westerly's built of grp in the 70's have hulls that are built like a brick sh*t house, which is encouraging!

I'm actually in no rush to buy at this moment in time but have started doing my homework about what is available etc I would however like to all setup & ready to go by March 2013 as I have the best part of 2013 off work to go exploring in my boat!

there are a few threads on here about 1st boats, it boils down to whatyou can afford, what you think you want to do and where you want to do it. This will then dictate what boat you need, then you dicide whats available in your area.
I would suggest a Trapper 500 or 501, or a Moody 33 Mk1, both excellent sea boats, or Colvic Watson 26.