Chichester Marina hazard to navigation warning

[Blue Sunray]

Why do you both pick up in the horn? That's one but he actually got right...

My view was that any correctness of the horn signal was more luck than judgement and that it was being used in much the same was as he would on his BMW. Nothing else on the video or in his postings here shows any signs of awareness of colregs.

 

[Keen_Ed]

Is there a book or something I can consult to find out what sailing is about?

By the sounds of it, it's carved onto stone tablets rather than written in a book.

 

[bedouin]

+1 Outrageous to be sailing in such a narrow fairway. .

Absolute nonsense of course - people regularly sail up that particular stretch of water without causing any problems. In this case had the MOBO skipper been competent he would have passed behind the tacking boat without any issue and without having to touch the throttle.

As it was a combination of a lack of understanding of Colregs and a lack of foresight got time into totally the wrong position.

 

[lionelz]

+1 Outrageous to be sailing in such a narrow fairway. Such action is not what sailing is about, even had there been no other vessels underway about.

The mobo's performance was used correctly to avoid the gormless & inconsiderate raggies.

Hahahah I think some of you may have taken the bait there. Can't belive some of you fell for that one.

 

[mobeydick]

That's fine, but when the other party starts harangueing you, and you feel you are in the right, they deserve to get both barrels

No they don't. It may make YOU feel better (so do it out of earshot if you want).

I wonder how many times someone as been abused in return and thought: "by golly, by his response I realise that the chap was correct all along. I wish I had not sworn at him so"

 

[VicS]

Is there a book or something I can consult to find out what sailing is about?

The Ladybird book "Sailing and Boating" would be a good choice for a novice.

There is usually a selection available on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_o...S0&_nkw=ladybird+sailing+and+boating&_sacat=0

 

[Dockhead]

All vessels violating Rule 2, but the motorboater much more than the others -- he is rushing into danger after a risk of collision has arisen -- execrable seamanship.

Rule 9 does not apply as all vessels were either sailing vessels, vessels under 20 meters, or both. In any case, even if Rule 10 applied, and even if the burden were only on the sailing vessels (not the case), once a risk of collision arose, the motor vessel is obligated to obey the other steering and sailing rules and give way to sail.

Sailors should not have been tacking up that narrow channel. That's motor time. They were causing an unreasonable hazard to other traffic.

Small maneuverable motor vessel could have easily picked his way through without causing this kerfuffle -- just pass on the starboard side after the tack.

A bunch of w******ers on all sides, in my opinion. Very unseamanlike all around.

 

[scarrick]

Well, speaking as 'The man on the Clapham omnibus' the mobo driver did the right thing. He warned of his presence, indicated his intentions and avoided a collision.

 

[Dockhead]

The conservancy says somewhere that ALL boats with engines should use them in narrow channels. Boat with the flappy things was a tw@t.

There can be literally hundreds of boats going up and down Itchenor reach. Can you imagine the carnage if all sail boats did what this plonker was doing. In the 14 years of being there I've never seen someone in a big boat like that tacking across the the channel.

I like the second raggie towing his tender so as to take up even more space

"Although generally power gives way to sail, a
sailing vessel has no right to hamper in a
narrow channel the safe passage of a power-
driven vessel which can navigate only inside
such a channel"

The deviations from the actual text totally distort the meaning.

The actual text is:

"A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can
safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway. "


The mobo in the video was a vessel of less than 20 metres in length.

And there is no word "motor" in the phrase, "a vessel which can safely navigate only within the channel."

I bet you also are not aware of the fact that even a vessel OVER 20 metres, even a ship, would be obligated to give way to sail, once a risk of collision arises. Rule 9 does not nullify Rule 18 -- it starts applying earlier.

 

[bedouin]

The deviations from the actual text totally distort the meaning.

The actual text is:

"A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can
safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway. "


The mobo in the video was a vessel of less than 20 metres in length.

And there is no word "motor" in the phrase, "a vessel which can safely navigate only within the channel."

I bet you also are not aware of the fact that even a vessel OVER 20 metres, even a ship, would be obligated to give way to sail, once a risk of collision arises. Rule 9 does not nullify Rule 18 -- it starts applying earlier.

All very well - but in this case Rule 13 applies - there are no exceptions to Rule 13.

 

[Uricanejack]

Not sure anything happened for which blame should be assigned. No collision,

Close quarters, poor manners and ungentlemanly behaviour by all parties involved.

Other, please specify. All three of them

 

[lw395]

I have no sound on this PC.
1) The MoBo seems to be going a bit quick for the conditions? Wash in the moorings etc. The speed limit is 8 knots.

2) The first overtake, I thought the raggie held his course over to the right to time tacking behind the MoBo. A non-event basically.

3) The second, you could see it going wrong. The yacht was obviously going to tack. Even if the yacht had been motoring, an overtaking MoBo should have been more careful. In places like that, it's easy for a tender or something to appear from between moored yachts, forcing the yacht to alter course. An overtaking boat has to allow for that sort of thing and be ready to give space.

4) Sailing up narrow channels. Maybe it's not considerate if there's a lot of traffic, but here there only seems to be one MoBo having a problem. Sometimes it's actually more sensible to get the sails up early on an upwind section than to need to go head to wind further down channel? Actually, coming out of chichester, there's not much space until you're out by the beacon, and sometimes it gets very busy in the wider bits of channel. Maybe the wind direction had changed or was not as expected? I'd suspect that the yacht was not going far, as he was towing a dinghy.
Worst case, the MoBo would have had to drop from 8 knots to 4 or so for 30 seconds or shock, horror, a whole minute to effect a smooth and courteous overtake. During which he might be quietly thinking the raggie is a bit silly....

I think Chi brings out the worst in boating. It's a long way from the marina to the sea and most people seem to be still working off the aggravation of the A27, A29, M25 etc when they set off. You get overtaken by much nice people in Langstone. A Langstone MoBo would more likely offer helpful advice about getting the jib in smartly.

 

[Dockhead]

All very well - but in this case Rule 13 applies - there are no exceptions to Rule 13.

Yes -- I agree that Rule 13 applies.

But remember that Rule 13 determines who gives way and who stands on in a certain phase of the encounter. Once the stand-on vessel has a reasonable doubt that the give-way vessel is taking adequate action to avoid the collision, it may take action, and when it is evident that the action of the give-way vessel will not be enough, MUST take action.

The sailboats violated Rule 2 and also violated their obligations as stand-on vessels -- the obligation to stand-on is NOT like the right of way -- gives no right to maneuver as you like, and in fact forbids this. So no right to just tack in front of another vessel, and this is execrable seamanship. The raggie might protest -- what else was I supposed to do -- the answer to which is heave-to and let the mobo go by, if it looks like you're about to cause a collision.

So I stand by my interpretation -- poor seamanship and COLREGS violations on part of all vessels involved.


The genius of the COLREGS is that it only takes ONE vessel following them, to avoid not only a collision, but any drama or argo of any kind. Once there's been a collision (or drama, or argo), you can be sure that everyone was at fault.

The mobo driver was an ass -- could have easily maneuvered around behind the sailboats as they tacked, but chose to drive deliberately into a risk of collision situation -- abhorrent. The sailors were also terrible -- seeing the ass coming down the channel, they should have simply hove to or luffed up and let him go by. This is not only common sense and good manners -- it is required by the COLREGS.

 

[Dockhead]

Not sure anything happened for which blame should be assigned. No collision,

Close quarters, poor manners and ungentlemanly behaviour by all parties involved.

Other, please specify. All three of them

Close quarters, a risk of collision created for no reason -- this is a serious matter.

 

[bedouin]

The sailboats violated Rule 2 and also violated their obligations as stand-on vessels -- the obligation to stand-on is NOT like the right of way -- gives no right to maneuver as you like, and in fact forbids this. So no right to just tack in front of another vessel, and this is execrable seamanship. The raggie might protest -- what else was I supposed to do -- the answer to which is heave-to and let the mobo go by, if it looks like you're about to cause a collision..

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing - The yacht was absolutely allowed to tack. If you don't have enough understanding of Colregs to know that you shouldn't be afloat let alone contributing to a thread like this.

The yacht's behaviour was absolutely within the rules - the MOBO was wrong in 3 or 4 respects.

 

[lw395]

It's worth bearing in mind that the fine detail of applying the ColRegs and Harbour Byelaws, not to mention good manners, can keep us all entertained.
But the Harbour Patrol do actually prosecute people for exceeding their speed limit.

 

[Blue Sunray]

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing - The yacht was absolutely allowed to tack. If you don't have enough understanding of Colregs to know that you shouldn't be afloat let alone contributing to a thread like this.

The yacht's behaviour was absolutely within the rules - the MOBO was wrong in 3 or 4 respects.

:encouragement:

 

[Dockhead]

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing - The yacht was absolutely allowed to tack. If you don't have enough understanding of Colregs to know that you shouldn't be afloat let alone contributing to a thread like this.

The yacht's behaviour was absolutely within the rules - the MOBO was wrong in 3 or 4 respects.

Ah, a good old COLREGS argument, complete with denigration of a poster's knowledge (without any knowledge of the poster's background or qualifications), rather than engaging the argument. Just like old times


Sorry, but this argument is false. The yacht is absolutely NOT allowed to tack into danger. For two reasons:

It's generally forbidden by Rule 2 to create a risk of collision, where one did not exist before.

And secondly, the yacht is obligated to hold its course and speed, once the obligation to stand-on has arisen. This is the classical confusion between standing-on and right of way. Once the vessels are in sight of one another and a risk of collision has arisen, they are no longer free to maneuver at will, but must follow the steering and sailing rules.

The yacht could not hold his course since he ran out of channel, but he could have luffed up or hove-to, and this he was required to do, once he could no longer hold his course, rather than tack under the bow of the mobo.


Now the mobo was also in violation of Rule 2. Although the yacht was obligated to stand on -- in order to allow the mobo to calculate a safe maneuver around him -- the mobo was also required to anticipate that the yacht would run out of channel and fail to do as he is required, and will continue tacking up the channel.

No vessel ever has a right to tack, or perform any other maneuver, which puts him under the bows of another vessel, or indeed to stand on, unless there is no other available course of action.

If someone taught you otherwise, they taught you wrong.

 

[bedouin]

Ah, a good old COLREGS argument, complete with denigration of a poster's knowledge (without any knowledge of the poster's background or qualifications), rather than engaging the argument. Just like old times


Sorry, but this argument is false. The yacht is absolutely NOT allowed to tack into danger. For two reasons:

It's generally forbidden by Rule 2 to create a risk of collision, where one did not exist before.

And secondly, the yacht is obligated to hold its course and speed, once the obligation to stand-on has arisen. This is the classical confusion between standing-on and right of way. Once the vessels are in sight of one another and a risk of collision has arisen, they are no longer free to maneuver at will, but must follow the steering and sailing rules.

The yacht could not hold his course since he ran out of channel, but he could have luffed up or hove-to, and this he was required to do, once he could no longer hold his course, rather than tack under the bow of the mobo.


Now the mobo was also in violation of Rule 2. Although the yacht was obligated to stand on -- in order to allow the mobo to calculate a safe maneuver around him -- the mobo was also required to anticipate that the yacht would run out of channel and fail to do as he is required, and will continue tacking up the channel.

No vessel ever has a right to tack, or perform any other maneuver, which puts him under the bows of another vessel, or indeed to stand on, unless there is no other available course of action.

If someone taught you otherwise, they taught you wrong.

I can't be bothered to argue with you - but for everyone's safety I seriously recommend you get yourself some proper training.

You won't find a qualified instructor in the world who agrees with you.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I can't be bothered to argue with you - but for everyone's safety I seriously recommend you get yourself some proper training.

You won't find a qualified instructor in the world who agrees with you.

:encouragement: