cheaper large instrument displays - mast mount

[greenalien]

As others have already pointed out, visibility of the screens is a major issue, most colour screens are invisible in sunlight, as any mobile phone owner knows! The Garmin GMI-10 is the exception that proves the rule - I bet the special coated glass on the front of these costs a lot! Maybe a cheaper option would be to use an array of LEDs - cheap, bright and easy to see. You could use 7-segment devices that are already set up to display numbers, these are already available in large sizes - e.g. http://proto-pic.co.uk/7-segment-red-6-5-display/ - if this is too big, how about these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-inch-7segment-Blue-LED-display-common-anode-2pcs-/310422336744 - or you could build a bigger array using discreet devices. This would be great for wind angles, for example, where you could have a circular display, using RGB LEDs, varying the colours as the wind direction changes - you could even show true and apparent wind on the same display, in different colours.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

When I did it before I used a single monochrome LCD bitmap display that was about 10cm by 20cm, 128 pixels by 64. This could display either a single user chooseable NMEA value in large digits, or a mix of 2 or 4 values in smaller digits in half or quarters of the screen. It could display pretty much anything that could come over NMEA.

I'm not interested in doing anything PC based or that uses VGA. I'm an embedded developer, not Windows/Linux. There are plenty of other people here who can do that.

A PIC can drive a bitmap display like the one I mentioned above, but probably not very quickly. A STM32 ARM would be better and dev boards cost only £7, including a JTAG interface.

http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/stm32f0discovery/eval-board-cortex-m0-stm32f0/dp/2096251

Dev tools are legally free...

www.coocox.org/

 

[AngusMcDoon]

AngusMcDoon & ShaunG,

I would be along, very interested in this. All I need would be an waterproof LCD-display with two or maybe three lines for repeating NMEA-sentences. Digits should be around 30mm height. For 200,- quid that would be a great achievement!

Regards,
Michael

I used to have an X99 - X-Ray Ted. It had ancient mast displays - Danamax ones, which I nurtured back into life. I reused the boxes and LCD panels and installed new home-grown electronics.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Maybe a cheaper option would be to use an array of LEDs - cheap, bright and easy to see.

Or just a monochrome LCD, viewable in any daylight conditions - cheap, off the shelf, easy to drive, very low power, and can be backlit for night use. I can't see that colour adds much other than the ability to charge a lot of money.

 

[northwind]

As others have already pointed out, visibility of the screens is a major issue, most colour screens are invisible in sunlight, as any mobile phone owner knows! The Garmin GMI-10 is the exception that proves the rule - I bet the special coated glass on the front of these costs a lot! Maybe a cheaper option would be to use an array of LEDs - cheap, bright and easy to see. You could use 7-segment devices that are already set up to display numbers, these are already available in large sizes - e.g. http://proto-pic.co.uk/7-segment-red-6-5-display/ - if this is too big, how about these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-inch-7segment-Blue-LED-display-common-anode-2pcs-/310422336744 - or you could build a bigger array using discreet devices. This would be great for wind angles, for example, where you could have a circular display, using RGB LEDs, varying the colours as the wind direction changes - you could even show true and apparent wind on the same display, in different colours.

The problem with LEDs, is again the visability, for external use, you really need to use high intensity ones such as these..

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/led-displays-7-segment/2359281/

I've used a pair of these:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/235-9051/ to build a simple GPS Speed repeater, boxed up in an IP66 clear front box similar to the one above.

I used a wireless link to send the data from the GPS, so the box only needed power to run, reducing cabiling requirements.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

how about a waterpoof transparent cover industrial electronics enclosure, either in aluminium or plastic

That's what I used when I did this before, but it just looks too pants to install on a boat.

 

[micha571]

I used to have an X99 - X-Ray Ted. It had ancient mast displays - Danamax ones, which I nurtured back into life. I reused the boxes and LCD panels and installed new home-grown electronics.

Angus,

then maybe you know our X-99? I bought it from the UK in 2010. Her name then was "Firestorm". Before that she sailed as "Saxon Girl" in the UK and Ireland.

Regards,
Michael

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Angus,

then maybe you know our X-99? I bought it from the UK in 2010. Her name then was "Firestorm". Before that she sailed as "Saxon Girl" in the UK and Ireland.

I remember Saxon Girl. Mine was fully in class with an old fashioned Dacron mainsail. But I got bored with going slowly after a few years, so grew 2 extra hulls.

 

[testmonkey]

That's what I used when I did this before, but it just looks too pants to install on a boat.

how about hiding it behind aluminium sheet metal, just cutting out a recess to show the LCD display
so take this

then some sheet metal like this, bent into shape

make some holes, but make front holes rectangular and hide the plastic enclosure behind, glue with sikaflex

so that it's not like this

but rather like this

I would like to get something like that as well, but only when price stays under 200 total...

 

[ShaunG]

From the above posts we seem to be on the right tracks..I currently have a tactick mast bracket (just a shaped piece of aluminium for mounting the displays) with 2 tactick displays, I guess with screens 5" x 2". From the sounds of it we have a route forward

A LCD or led screen that has 'pages' that can display any of the nmea data on the network with maybe a refresh period of x times per second. The screen and electronics should be housed in a nice looking self contained housing, each with a 12v, Nmea connection and a button or 2 to control data displayed and layout.

I think we need to spec the screen technology first, size, colour , backlit etc

Please throw ideas in the pot on screen spec, size, colour, b&w etc and I will draw up a spec and start the hunt

 

[micha571]

Thanks for all the input!

Shaun, I'm no electronics expert, but for me a LCD-screen with three lines, digits at least 25 mm high (better 30mm), would be fantastic. A backlight-function would be even better.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

You don't need updates several times a second, because NMEA data doesn't come in that fast. You update it when it changes.

 

[ShaunG]

Thanks for the Frame rate update Angus, I never thought about that..i guess once a second would be good as all of the data fields are cycled through.

Thinking more on lcd's/LED's....something that could switch layout based between 1,2,3,4 lines of data would be good

Looking at things like the B&G20/20 they have 2 lines i think, a small line for the title of the data and a larger line for the data display...What technology do these currently use..i am guessing backilt LCD with 2 lines???? anyone know any better?


The NKE onces seem to use much smaller screens, and from first glance appear to be straightforward two line displays

 

[testmonkey]

electromagnetic display segments are pretty cool as well... and give optimal visibility. Also you can hear a flipping sound when numbers change. But I guess these are nowadays replaced by LEDs and would anyway cost too much.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Thanks for the Frame rate update Angus, I never thought about that..i guess once a second would be good as all of the data fields are cycled through.

Thinking more on lcd's/LED's....something that could switch layout based between 1,2,3,4 lines of data would be good

Looking at things like the B&G20/20 they have 2 lines i think, a small line for the title of the data and a larger line for the data display...What technology do these currently use..i am guessing backilt LCD with 2 lines???? anyone know any better?


The NKE onces seem to use much smaller screens, and from first glance appear to be straightforward two line displays

My previous project to do this used a 128x64 graphic display. The screen could display 1,2 or 4 boxes of data, each with a title in a smaller font. It's quite easy to do with a graphic display.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

electromagnetic display segments are pretty cool as well... and give optimal visibility.

We could always go and raid some from a station.

 

[ShaunG]

just had a really good chat with these guys

http://www.ltp-group.co.uk/index.php?id=6

They can make/manafacture whatever housing we want...early indications based on a B&G 30/30 style copy housing is about £40 per enclosure based on 10 Units.

They can make it waterproof, cut the LCD window, place a sealed vinyl film in front (not sure if this is needed if we were to use a gasket on the LCD display..they can add membrane buttons etc etc and print on the whole unit...seems like a bargain to me

If i can get an idea of the size of the unit we can start to sketch it up and see what is possible.. I guess this all revolves around the display being sunlight readable.....

LCD or LED??? anoyone know of any good sites that allow a look through the range??

What size Display...a 2 x 2 sounds like a good comprmise to 2 me. 2 lines of data (a title in smaller text above a larger set of text with the main data) all of this above each other... i will draw up some ideas later and post

I wonder if we could have the layout selectable, ie. a 2 x 2 or a 2 x1 display, obvioulsy the 2 x 1 would give larger digits.

Digit sizes - what minimum spec in 2 x 2 and 2x1 orientation. i will find out the sizes are that are used by the big boys

Processer??? PIC or what Angus reccomends

 

[northwind]

We could always go and raid some from a station.

Is this one too big?

 

[northwind]

Garmin GMI 10's are better, only cost about £300 each and if you shop around you may get them for less.

Or you can buy refurbished ones for under £200.00

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garmin-GMI-10-GMI10-Digital-Marine-Instrument-Display-010-00687-10-NMEA2000-0183-/221090093267?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3379ff18d3

 

[ShaunG]

Dont get me wrong, i love the GM10, just a bit small when mast mounted

I have been doing some research and have the following:

Tacktick mast displays come in 2 flavours

a 2 x 1 (ignoring the lower line)

http://www.tactix.de/wp-content/uploads/tacktick-display-t210.jpg

which has 50mm Digits

and a 2 x 2 which has 32mm Digits

http://www.surfsideelectronics.com/images/34706.gif

The B&G 20/20 has a 2 x1 option only and uses 42mm Digits, the 40/40 uses 85mm digits ( if we have a boat that requries digits this size then i guess cost of the display is well down the list )

http://www.marine-electronics-unlimited.com/B%26G+20-20+HV+Display+Pack.html

Looking at the specs on both of these the screens appear to about 4" x 7", the housings are either pure ABS or a mix of ABS front with Aluminium rear

The displays seem to use negative segmented LCD's with a 3 level backlight, red, green or amber seem to be favoured

I have been looking further at the 128x56 pixel LCD's which seem to come in any flavour of backlight (selectable) i am struggling to find the right size though

an example of what i have been looking at/for
http://adafruit.com/products/438

I have sourced a company that can make housings very reasonably priced, if we can get the screen/electronics together then i can proceed further down this route, unless someone on here has the right expertise in this area?

I have started to write up a very intial base spec as below:

Total complete price including looking good <£200 per display

A IPX7/IP67 waterproof rated display that can be attached to a mast of a Sailing yacht. The housing should be manufactured from either ABS, Aluminuim or a combination

The display should be capable of displaying all data that is present on a the Yachts NMEA network by means of the standard 2 wire connection, The NMEA display should also incorporate the ability to display the custom NMEA sentances utilised by some manafacturers to show performance data such as taget speed etc, these are known for Tacktick and use the FF1-4 identifier, custom sentances to be identified for Silva, B&G and NKE

The graphic display should be a backlight display that is suitable for day and night time viewing with 3 levels of brightness. The display should have the capability to display 2 lines of data per feed, the actual data in large digits and title data in digits 40% the size of the main data digits. The data should be able to switch to provide 2 data sets on the same display, in smaller digits similar to a tacktick 2 x 2 display

Data Selection and Control

Data to be displayed should be selectable by ‘cycling’ through the each data set available on the NMEA network. Contrast control should also be available. Control of data display should be by means of a hardwired single push button that can be mounted remotely from the display



Any thoughts on where we are so far...

If we can tie down the requirements (i can proceed this one if wanted, we can then focus on the solution and the technolgies required, suppliers, price etc

so far i think we have the following interested

ShaunG
AngusMcdoon
testmonkey
Micha571

Anyone i have missed so far?

My skill set is fairly limited...I do have the following:

Day job is Software Application development Project Manager
Previous roles as a General IT techy and network guy
Can program C#, asp.net, SQl etc
Limited Knowledge of PIC's and Ardunios, but working hard on these
A bit of general electronics
fairly good at sourcing suppliers, negotiating and resolving roadblocks
Full of Big Ideas and ways to make boat toys cheaper

AngusMcDoon - seems you are the man with all the knowledge in the electronics side...would be great to learn about some of this

If we want to progress this then i would i think it could be a great YBW Forum project...Hands up if still intersted and we can start to tie down the spec and work out how the hell to do it