Cheap Chinese AIS Transponder

[AngusMcDoon]

That's nothing. I passed a shop the other day selling Chinese made iPads, bold as brass, in broad daylight, when everybody knows that Chinese people can't possibly make stuff to a high standard. Now, what was the shop called?

Oh yes, I remember. "Apple".

Just a fallacious argument as you well know so I don't know why you are bothering making it. I'm not aware that anyone has said that China cannot make products to high standards, so you are making up things again. Apple contract Foxconn to do their manufacturing, but it's an Apple product built to Apple quality requirements. Do you think this is made in the same factory as the Yamaha it is copying? Is it the same quality as the Yamaha? "Same as Yamaha" it says. Gullible enough to believe that?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/outboard-...at_Engines_EngineParts_SM&hash=item27dc04f796

 

[Plevier]

You should get yourselves one of those Chinese Rolex watches while you are at it. Just the same, innit?

If all you can do is make silly remarks that contribute nothing to a discussion why not keep them to yourself please?

 

[BruceDanforth]

I'd not realised you were a moderator, sorry.

If all you can do is make silly remarks that contribute nothing to a discussion why not keep them to yourself please?

 

[AngusMcDoon]

But here is the thing if Matsutech are copying Furuno, how come they brought out the HP33A (the AIS transceiver) before Furuno have a similar product? Seems odd to me.

Look at the history of motorcycle manufacture. When Japan was an emerging manufacturing nation they started out copying British motorcycles. Then they designed their own. It's plausible that the GPS is copied and the AIS is not.

 

[JumbleDuck]

You don't seem to be able to distinguish between designing something and assembling something so I'll stop bothering to converse with you.

What is it about Chinese people which you think makes them unable to design things - the colour of their skin or the shape of their eyes?

Here, by the way, is a picture of a lunar lander, taken from a lunar rover which it put on the moon last month. Bet you can't guess which country designed and built them.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Just a fallacious argument as you well know so I don't know why you are bothering making it. I'm not aware that anyone has said that China cannot make products to high standards, so you are making up things again.

One poster here seems to find it impossible to believe that quality products could ever come out of China. Your point about Parsun/Yamaha is interesting, because it's not so long since the Bufton-Tuftons who assume that everything Chinese is bad were telling us that the Wily Nip could never design stuff himself, but was adept at copying the products of the superior Western mind.

Sure, there is some real tat comes out of China, but there is some very good stuff too, and it's equally foolish to expect an unseen product to be one or the other.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

What is it about Chinese people which you think makes them unable to design things - the colour of their skin or the shape of their eyes?

No-one said that the Chinese cannot design anything, but the example you gave as being made in China (an Apple product) was not designed there as you well know.

Oh, and by the way, if you want to give an example of a Chinese company which is at the forefront of research, design and technology and a market leader in their field, you should pick Huawei.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

One poster here seems to find it impossible to believe that quality products could ever come out of China.

If you are implying me, that is completely untrue, and yet again, is not something I have ever said.

 

[JumbleDuck]

If you are implying me, that is completely untrue, and yet again, is not something I have ever said.

I am absolutely not implying you and hope nobody has got that impression. On the contrary, your postings in these threads have been amongst the most interesting and obviously best informed.

 

[JumbleDuck]

No-one said that the Chinese cannot design anything, but the example you gave as being made in China (an Apple product) was not designed there as you well know.

Of course, but I was responding to someone who was claiming that all Chinese-made electronics must be of the same quality as a knock-off Rolex.

Oh, and by the way, if you want to give an example of a Chinese company which is at the forefront of research, design and technology and a market leader in their field, you should pick Huawei.

Good example. Thanks.

 

[BrianH]

You should get yourselves one of those Chinese Rolex watches while you are at it. Just the same, innit?

It depends. A very long time ago when I was living in Singapore I acquired, not a Chinese Rolex but a Chinese IWC - the non-fake original being superior to a Rolex. As a naturalised Swiss I am not proud of this moral lapse in my life, but then, we all make mistakes when younger.

Many copy-watches (or replicas, as they are now euphemistically called) use a quartz movement and the second hand will move in the give-away, one-second jumps. But there are copy-watches and copy watches and mine cost me infinitely more than what a standard copy-watch would have cost.

The movement is a Chinese SeaGull, of the same class as an equivalent Swiss ETA mechanical automatic one and an excellent movement - it produces a smooth second hand sweep around the dial. In fact the watch is a superb piece of engineering in its own right - one of those rare copy-watches that experts have to send to the manufacturer to get authenticated. From 'Uhr' the Swiss watch magazine: "The Seagull is not “just a copy” of the ETA 2824-2. It is a re-engineered version of the ETA 2824-2."

If I could obtain a Chinese AIS system that was built to the same quality as my IWC copy and at the prices discussed here, then the only impediment might be potential guarantee and support.

 

[BruceDanforth]

I don't like the implications you are making that I am a racist but your other attitudes seem to be those of a simpleton so I shall let them pass.

I work in an electronics factory and we find our products being cloned as sometimes even dangerous copies in China. The casings, the firmware, the hardware, packaging, logos, the lot. They sometimes make their way back to us via the RMA channels costing us damage in reputation as well as straightforward economic loss. Plus there are the legal costs of shutting down the operations importing the fakes.

State of the art Chinese space equipment really isn't relevant to the discussion of unapproved hooky consumer electronics.

What is it about Chinese people which you think makes them unable to design things - the colour of their skin or the shape of their eyes?

Here, by the way, is a picture of a lunar lander, taken from a lunar rover which it put on the moon last month. Bet you can't guess which country designed and built them.

 

[BruceDanforth]

Of course, but I was responding to someone who was claiming that all Chinese-made electronics must be of the same quality as a knock-off Rolex.



Good example. Thanks.

you just make stuff up and attribute it to other people.

 

[Bi111ion]

I work in an electronics factory and we find our products being cloned as sometimes even dangerous copies in China. The casings, the firmware, the hardware, packaging, logos, the lot. They sometimes make their way back to us via the RMA channels costing us damage in reputation as well as straightforward economic loss. Plus there are the legal costs of shutting down the operations importing the fakes.

State of the art Chinese space equipment really isn't relevant to the discussion of unapproved hooky consumer electronics.

This seems to be getting rather far from the topic. We are not talking about a fake device here, although clearly such things do exist. The quality of this device and its relative merits are yet to be determined, and in any case our sample size is so far one (+ a reader of my blog who may have a faulty unit but we will see, in particular we will see how their after sales support is).

However if I may attempt to calm things down. The reason that cheaper copies of electronics are made in China is mainly down to thee factors as far as can see (1) the IP laws are relatively weak in China so people are not prevented from doing it, (2) the there are sufficiently skilled people to do this who can be hired at a low enough price. (3) the availability of investors who are willing and able to support such an enterprise. I expect the same would happen anywhere these conditions are met.

 

[BruceDanforth]

A faulty unit, oh dear!

There's an interesting page on Furuno's website:

http://www.furuno.co.jp/en/corporate/ip/similar.html

Nothing to calm down with me. My money is still in my wallet.

This seems to be getting rather far from the topic. We are not talking about a fake device here, although clearly such things do exist. The quality of this device and its relative merits are yet to be determined, and in any case our sample size is so far one (+ a reader of my blog who may have a faulty unit but we will see, in particular we will see how their after sales support is).

However if I may attempt to calm things down. The reason that cheaper copies of electronics are made in China is mainly down to thee factors as far as can see (1) the IP laws are relatively weak in China so people are not prevented from doing it, (2) the there are sufficiently skilled people to do this who can be hired at a low enough price. (3) the availability of investors who are willing and able to support such an enterprise. I expect the same would happen anywhere these conditions are met.

 

[BruceDanforth]

Firmware is a pretty big development cost. It is a bit more than a badge.

I was thinking of Fuji compact digital cameras that are identical to Leica cameras except for the firmware but half the price. In this case they really only differ by badge engineering. Like in the old days of **** British made cars paying extra for a Woolsey and thinking you were better than Austin owners.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

There's an interesting page on Furuno's website:

http://www.furuno.co.jp/en/corporate/ip/similar.html

That's pretty damning. I will now assume that the Furuno lookalike GPS is an unauthorised copy, not made in the same factory, not made with Furuno's consent, not re-badged and sold at a higher price by Furuno, not sold by Furuno with different firmware, and the company who make this GPS also make the OP's AIS. Of course, I have no hard evidence, and others will disagree. However, it goes right back to my original opinion on the AIS, which is treat it with suspicion, including any certification they may claim to have.

 

[Bi111ion]

That's pretty damning. I will now assume that the Furuno lookalike GPS is an unauthorised copy, not made in the same factory, not made with Furuno's consent, not re-badged and sold at a higher price by Furuno, not sold by Furuno with different firmware, and the company who make this GPS also make the OP's AIS. Of course, I have no hard evidence, and others will disagree. However, it goes right back to my original opinion on the AIS, which is treat it with suspicion, including any certification they may claim to have.

Well maybe but still not proven. Anyone want to ask Furuno? It would be interesting if they say 'those skallywags at "Matsutec" keep ripping off our products' or 'no we just buy the cases (and come to think of that the chipsets although they wont say that) from the same supplier.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I don't like the implications you are making that I am a racist but your other attitudes seem to be those of a simpleton so I shall let them pass.

Your general argument seems to be that's it Chinese so it can't work and if it does work it's Chinese so it can meet standards and if it does meet standards it's Chinese so it can be certified and if it's certified it's Chinese so the certification must be fake and so on and so on and so on.

You may have every reason to be cross with some Chinese companies, but it comes across - to me, anyway - as a bit simplistic to damn the entire country's electronics industry on that basis.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Well maybe but still not proven. Anyone want to ask Furuno? It would be interesting if they say 'those skallywags at "Matsutec" keep ripping off our products' or 'no we just buy the cases (and come to think of that the chipsets although they wont say that) from the same supplier.

As I said, just my assumption, and as I also said, I have no hard evidence, so no, not proven, but that page on Furuno's website is as damning as you'll get without chapter and verse from Furuno themselves. Like Bruce, I have also worked in electronics manufacturing all my career and have come across much the same kind of business practices that he mentions. It has always been Chinese companies. That is not xenophobic, but just the way that it is. In one case a counterfeit device killed someone and the company I was working for had a legal battle on their hands to prove that it was not their fault. Perhaps because of my work experiences my initial reaction is suspicion.